RUNNERS & CHEERERS: Marathon Life with Shalane Flanagan
November 18, 2021
Glennon Doyle:
Okay, everybody, here we are.
Abby Wambach:
Welcome back.
Glennon Doyle:
Welcome back to We Can Do …
Abby Wambach:
Hard Things.
Glennon Doyle:
That was good, babe. Look at us. Okay. So, today, before we jump into our very exciting pod, which I’m really psyched about, we want to tell you that Abby, Sister Amanda and I are very excited because we’re going to hang out with you tonight at our live journal event to celebrate this week’s lunch of Get Untamed, the journal. It’s our first live event together ever. I mean, except for the rest of our lives that we spent together live.
Abby Wambach:
It’s the first live event the three of us will be doing together.
Glennon Doyle:
Where there’s other people watching us.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, if you want to come, there’s still time to register until 5:00 p.m. Eastern. There’s literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people that are going to be there.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. I think that over 10,000 people.
Glennon Doyle:
Something crazy.
Abby Wambach:
Something amazing.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. So, it’s going to be really fun. It’ll be just like this, except with all of us together. So, join us tonight live and in real time at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 p.m. Pacific. And again, you can still sign up before 5:00 p.m. Eastern at getuntamedjournal.com/event. So, we’ll see you tonight, but now let’s start the show. Why don’t you tell …
Abby Wambach:
I feel nervous.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
So, I just wanted to say that. I feel nervous.
Glennon Doyle:
About?
Abby Wambach:
What we’re about to talk about.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. What I would like to tell everyone, because you can’t see my sweet wife who’s sitting next to me on the couch is that why don’t you explain to everyone why you’ve been wearing that huge golden medal around your neck all day long in our house while we’ve been doing laundry?
Abby Wambach:
Well, because I earned it.
Glennon Doyle:
You earned it. And how did you earn it?
Abby Wambach:
I completed the New York City Marathon. Yes. And so, the reason why I’m actually wearing this is because I feel like I’m only going to get about a week’s worth of goodwill from my wife and family and so I want to try to prolong that goodwill for as long as possible.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
So yes, I wear this around. I also did this after the World Cup and the Olympics.
Glennon Doyle:
You did.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, because I just wanted people to not forget.
Glennon Doyle:
Because people move on, man, pretty fast.
Abby Wambach:
Just like that. They’re like, “It’s over.” And I’m like, “Oh no, no, no. I’m going to remind you for a solid week.” And then, I stop.
Glennon Doyle:
Let’s talk about the marathon because I’m so freaking proud of you. Can you tell everybody how the hell you ended up running a marathon?
Abby Wambach:
Okay. So, just very briefly, about three years ago, I decided this is about two and a half years, two to two and a half years after my retirement. I didn’t really do much to work out. Quite frankly, I thought that this body earned enough goodwill to never have to actually work out again.
Glennon Doyle:
You thought that’s how it would work.
Abby Wambach:
I did.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
I desperately really wished.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
But then my body just, I felt terrible. I didn’t feel good. So, I decided, okay, I’m going to do the thing that takes the least amount of time that makes me feel the best and that burns the most calories and that was running. But I mean, by the way, I couldn’t just start running and I had to start walking.
Glennon Doyle:
You walked. I remember you started by walking. Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
I started walking and then I started wogging is what I call it, a walk jog, mostly wogging, mostly walking at first. And then, it turned into a jog. And then, I started to jog run. And then, I became a runner all of a sudden. When you are doing this over and over again, you literally have to give yourself some sort of goal so as to not get burnt out or bored. I had a running friend, Katie Brodnik in Naples.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, first, let’s say, you tried to make me a running friend. She would come home. My precious pod squad will understand this. She would come home and try so hard to get me to run with her. And she would try to trick me in all these different ways. And one time came home and she said, “Babe, I just listened to this podcast,” ironically. “And in it they said that for every mile that you run, you add seven minutes to your life.” So she said, “It’s math, Glennon, you could actually extend to your life.” And I said, “Okay, if you want to bring math into it, it takes me 17 minutes to run a mile. So, if it adds seven, but take 17, I’m losing 10 minutes of life for every mile.” I’m like, “Running is killing me. It’s shortening my lifespan and that’s math.”
Glennon Doyle:
So, then you found this other friend to run with you who doesn’t understand math.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. No, I don’t think that’s quite how it works, babe, but I see your point.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
I see your point. I see your point.
Glennon Doyle:
Thanks.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. So Katie and I, we became workout partners and fast friends. And so we started training for these things. We trained for half marathon. And then, when I leaded my first half marathon, I thought, I guess, the next step is a marathon. And somewhere on my bucket list, my secret bucket list that I don’t talk to people about. There is the marathon, right, to complete a marathon. And at that point, some of our kids were in middle school and our middle school coach, Coach Lou, every time we would go to their cross country meets, she would always just kind of like nag me, like, “Sign up for a marathon. Come on, do it.”
Glennon Doyle:
Coach Lou is a magical angel who inspires middle schoolers to run.
Abby Wambach:
And their parents.
Glennon Doyle:
And their parents, but just like has walked our family through so much, through the divorce …
Abby Wambach:
How to get a middle schooler to run for an extended period of time is a freaking miracle.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. She can do that. She can do anything.
Abby Wambach:
So there I was with a decision and I signed up for the 2020 marathon in New York City. I think we all know how 2020 went, that marathon got canceled.
Glennon Doyle:
Remember that day? That was the best day of our lives.
Abby Wambach:
It was the best. Because …
Glennon Doyle:
You pretended to be sad for like 10 minutes and you couldn’t even fake it.
Abby Wambach:
Well because it was many months before the event, so at least I didn’t train the entire time and then it got canceled at the last moment. That would’ve been horrible. I did do a couple of long runs, but not as many as I trained for this last one. So, I kept running throughout COVID. That was what I was doing. That’s kind of what I have become in this process. And I guess I found myself in New York City, again, signing up for this marathon. I was actually able to coerce a couple of my teammates to train remotely with me to run it with me. Actually …
Glennon Doyle:
Leslie Osborne.
Abby Wambach:
Leslie Osborne, Lauren Cheney. And there was actually a couple other women who had trained with us but had injuries, Heather Mitts and Kate Markgraf, former teammates. And, to me, that was so special to be able to reconnect with all of them in a physical way.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
Even though we weren’t doing it together, it felt like a good accountability. When we moved to California, some of the women who lived more on the east coast or Midwest, they would text like, “That run was brutal.”
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. You guys really reconnected during that time.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Cool. So, we find ourselves in New York City. So, we’re in the cab.
Abby Wambach:
We’re in the cab and you turn to me and you say, “What can I do for you this weekend to make sure that Sunday goes as perfectly as it possibly can?”
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. That was an important moment. Because I noticed that you got really quiet. You told me it was kind of like how you used to get on game day …
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
… when you were playing but I never …
Abby Wambach:
I was going in a pre-game. I was going in a game day mode.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. But I’ve never experienced that before we weren’t together during your career.
Abby Wambach:
I know. It’s so interesting.
Glennon Doyle:
But we were in the cab and I was like, “Why isn’t she talking to me? She doesn’t not talk, like terror alert level red. Why is she not talking? Is she choking on something?” And you were in the mode and so …
Abby Wambach:
I was ruminating about the whole thing. I was processing. I was thinking about every little detail because I know that those small details matter.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
Right? And I think that you caught on that I wasn’t really being present. I wasn’t …
Glennon Doyle:
So I asked you.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. So, you asked me and I think that that might be one of the most important things that could have happened to me that weekend because I think I was contemplating, how the hell am I going to do this and also take care of you.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. Because pod squad, we were going to New York City. So, I often get lost on the way from my pantry to the family room.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
So, you can imagine how Abby was feeling about a weekend in New York City when she might be distracted and Chase was coming too.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. A little side wrinkle, Chase was on a train coming from college to also come and be with us during the …
Glennon Doyle:
So, you were worried about us.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. I was a little stressed. So you asking me that question was wonderful and how did I respond?
Glennon Doyle:
You looked at me, you turned to me in the cab and you said, “Honey, what I need from you this weekend is that I just really need you to pay attention.”
Abby Wambach:
Pay attention, Glennon.
Glennon Doyle:
“Pay attention, Glennon.” Damned if I didn’t say, “Pay attention, Glennon” to myself every minute of every day of that weekend. I tried so hard.
Abby Wambach:
I think that Glennon does paint a good picture for you in terms of how she experiences the world. And it’s not far off. Glennon, I’m constantly vigilant. Is she stepping in the way of oncoming traffic? Is she on her phone not knowing that somebody’s going to crash into her. And when you’re in New York City, it is not a forgiving place.
Glennon Doyle:
No. I am being vigilant also. I’m just being vigilant to things on the inside of me.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
To my imagination, to my brain, to my heart.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
To my feelings.
Abby Wambach:
Yes. I was telling you, you can’t be totally on your inside world all the time.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Abby Wambach:
In New York City, you of come out and join us.
Glennon Doyle:
Pay attention. And we did. And you went and did all of your pre-marathon things. Chase and I navigated New York City. Chase, he gets lost on his inner world too. So, we were walking by each other through Time Square, we were both going, “Pay Attention. Pay Attention.” And then we went to see Brandy, our friend, Brandy Carlisle perform Joanie Mitchell’s Blue at freaking Carnegie Hall.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, that was so special.
Glennon Doyle:
It was unbelievable. And then we stayed for that. And then the next morning, tell us about the game day.
Abby Wambach:
I had to get out of there early because I was stressing about hydrating. They wouldn’t let me bring any water bottles inside. It was so beautiful, but I had to go drink water.
Glennon Doyle:
And I wish you guys could have seen the Brandy Carlisle Jonie Mitchell tribute concert. I told Brandy, we should have had a designated survivor for that night because had something happened at Carnegie Hall, we would’ve had no queer elder, lesbian people left on the planet.
Abby Wambach:
It’s true.
Glennon Doyle:
They were all there. It was joy. It was just utter joy. I just wanted to close the doors and just everyone live there for forever.
Abby Wambach:
I don’t know if anybody just picked it up, but Glennon just called herself a queer elder. Did you hear it? She said we.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. I’m going to get it tattooed on my forehead. I want to be a queer aunt. I want to be a queer godmother, fairy godmother, for all of the young I want to. Yes. Okay. Go ahead. So, now it’s game day. Now it’s marathon morning.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. Well, I had to get back to the hotel that night and set up my clothes because I knew you would come home and I didn’t want to disturb you and Chase. Chase was on a cot in our hotel room and I didn’t want to disturb you. I had to wake up 4:30 in the morning and then I was just like, “I’ve never run a marathon before.” And so I was like, “I guess I’ll just do it like I would do a national team game.”
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Abby Wambach:
So, I woke up and I took a shower and I did all of the little, literally every little ritual that I did with the national team I was doing by myself in the little bathroom. When you take a shower in the winter, it just gets steamy.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
So, I was trying to put my clothes on and it was all sticking to my body. It was not ideal, but I did it. I got on the bus with Lauren and Leslie and there, we went. The bus drove us to Staten Island and we happened to get there, the way that it works is there’s so much traffic. There are so many people condensing down into one spot that you have to go super early. And so, you sit there for three hours till the start.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s awful. Just worrying.
Abby Wambach:
Talk about hyper analyzing. You’re there for as long as maybe the race will last, right, for some of the runners. And so, all of us are kind of in this little area. I have a belt that I’m carrying my food in, goo or whatever you want to call it, any kind of calorie. I have my phone. I’ve got headphones in case I need it.
Glennon Doyle:
So then, you start.
Abby Wambach:
So, the race starts and it’s like you’re running over this initial bridge, that Staten Island Bridge and it’s like a two mile long situation.
Glennon Doyle:
The bridge is two miles to start off with. And there’s 30,000 people running?
Abby Wambach:
Yes. We happened to be at the front.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wambach:
And so I realized, I turned back and I saw some signs that were like three hour pace, three hour and 15 minute pace, three hour and 30 pace. And those are not our pace times. So, lots of people had to run past us.
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Abby Wambach:
So, I had to tell us, I was like, “Hey listen, if a lot of people pass us, don’t freak out.”
Glennon Doyle:
Because these are national team. These people do not like to be passed.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right. Let them pass and we’ll find our little niche. So, we’re running and we get over the bridge and the way that the marathon is, the course is structured is, you go over five bridges, I think it is. And no fans are allowed on the bridges, but fans are allowed everywhere else. And every other inch of that course, there was a human being cheering us on. I mean, honestly, I don’t know how else to describe it other than the word magic. I mean those first five miles, we were running faster than we planned to. We kept saying like, “Slow down. We need to slow our pace down because our legs are going to go.”
Abby Wambach:
So yeah, the first half of the marathon truly was magic. I feel like it’s the hardest physical human experience that I’ve ever done. And running with my teammates was special, especially because I felt … People who know me, people who’ve trained with me know that fitness was no ever something that I loved to do. In fact, I hated it, right? So doing this thing, doing the New York City Marathon was a huge deal.
Glennon Doyle:
So, you’re running the first half.
Abby Wambach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
And the first half, the first half of the race you said was awesome, right?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. It was amazing. And then the second half hits. There was this long bridge and my friends were starting to creep ahead of me and I’m like, “What the hell’s going on?” Sure enough, they’re feeling great still and I am now about to hit the wall. And the wall was brutal and the wall never ended. I never got my legs back. I never felt good again. It was brutal for the rest of the time. Lauren ended up going a little bit ahead of us. Leslie was like, “Please, I’m running with you.” And I literally had to beg her. I was like around mile 22, I think, I said, “Leslie, if you don’t run faster and go ahead of me, I’m going to be so pissed. I love you. And I will meet you at the finish line.”
Glennon Doyle:
But how sweet that she wanted to stay with you.
Abby Wambach:
I know.
Glennon Doyle:
So, what got you through that last time? It was Alex. It was Alex’s sign, right?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Our dear friends, Alex and Jody were there …
Abby Wambach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
… with us.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. They were there. The night before, Alex asked me, “What is a word that I can say to you that will trigger some sort of response, like a run faster, like make you get through it?” And I thought about it for a second and I said, “Rather than a word, I would like you to ask me a question. And the question was, who are you now?” So lo and behold, Alex made a poster that said, “Who are you now?”
Abby Wambach:
Well, the irony of this whole thing is all I thought about through the whole race was, who are you now? And every mile, babe, I swear, every single mile, the answer was different. The first mile, it was awesome.
Glennon Doyle:
Badass.
Abby Wambach:
Strong.
Glennon Doyle:
Easy.
Abby Wambach:
No problem, right? And then, as the miles kind of went on, the words in my answer kind of shifted in different ways, pain and sadness. There were some miles with grief. But one of the things that I’m so proud of is that all I had to do to keep moving through those emotions was just keep running, just to keep putting one step in front of the other. And in the end, it was mile 24, I was running alone at that point. And so, I turned on my headphones and I played the playlist. The very first playlist I ever sent you.
Glennon Doyle:
You told me, you realized that you were so freaking exhausted. And so, out of everything that you realized, the only thing that’s going to get you through the last two miles was love.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
And so you put on, which has so many slow songs, I can’t believe that you finished the marathon with all those slow low songs.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. But that’s what moves me, you know? That’s love. I don’t know. I think that those first 24 miles, I feel like I truly experienced the entirety of the human experience, every emotion possible. And then, I decided, “Okay, love is going to be the thing that gets me through this.” And then it made me in the end, like after thinking about it, I think, that actually all of those emotions are love. I think that’s what it is.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
They’re not separate. They’re all together.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. They’re all together.
Abby Wambach:
They’re all together.
Glennon Doyle:
And it’s so interesting because you think, well, the point of the marathon, I mean, it’s such a spiritual experience. We think it’s to survive the physicality of it. But really, when you talk about it, it feels like it’s to survive every emotion that people go through being human.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
All in one event.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
You go through all of it and survive all of it by just continuing to move forward is a hell of a metaphor if I do say so myself. Well, I just want to talk real quick …
Abby Wambach:
What about your experience, babe?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. Let’s please. I mean, my god.
Abby Wambach:
That was a lot of me talking.
Glennon Doyle:
It was. And I really do truly feel like this was my marathon. Okay. Because I just want you to know anyone who’s been listening to me speak my words for some time knows that I tried out for cheerleading like five times, I think, maybe six, I don’t know, in middle school and high school. I’m horribly uncoordinated. I don’t know why. I thought that it was ever going to work, but I just so desperately wanted to belong. I felt like if I had a uniform that would be proof that I belonged. So that is what I wanted more than anything but I kept failing at it to the point where my dad was like, “You need to stop embarrassing the family. Please, we know we told you, you can do anything and we want to amend that to you can do anything except cheerleader.”
Abby Wambach:
They got bubbles here.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. So the thing is this weekend at the marathon, I fulfilled my lifelong dream of becoming. I was an unfucking believable cheerleader at this marathon. Okay. I want to explain to you all, you’re standing on the streets of New York City. Okay. You have your signs. You get there. There’s thousands of other people on the streets of New York City. And there are people running by you who have been running in the streets for miles, hours, and they are old and they are young and they are medium. They are in wheelchairs and they are on feet and their fists in the air and they are heads down crying and they are just committed for some God knows reason to continue moving forward. And it is the most inspiring thing I have ever seen in my entire life. I screamed.
Glennon Doyle:
And then, the most amazing thing, you guys, you all, is that a lot of them write their names on their bibs. Okay. So, you can scream out their names. Okay. And you see somebody running and they look so tired and they look like they’re about to give up and then you see their name and you scream their name. You say, “Helen, looking strong, Helen. Hell yeah, you’re a marathoner Helen.” And you just see Helen. You could actually see the love that you offer from a stranger, from the street, go into a stranger who’s running and fuel them.
Abby Wambach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
You watch love from a stranger fuel somebody else. Do you still hear my voice? The marathon was five days ago. And if I sound extremely sultry and sexy today, it’s because I still am getting my voice back, five hours of screaming. And what I want the pod squad to know is that there were many pod squanders running in this marathon, okay. So, this amazing thing kept happening …
Abby Wambach:
Oh, this is good.
Glennon Doyle:
… where I kept screaming at people, “Go Jacqueline. Go Missy,” whatever. And they’d turn around and they’d go, “Glennon, hi, we Can Do Hard Things,” or whatever. And they …
Abby Wambach:
Because she’s also holding a sign that said, “Abby.”
Glennon Doyle:
“Abby can do hard things.”
Abby Wambach:
“Abby can do hard things.”
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. But they’d turn and say, “Glennon.” And then they’d keep running and then I’d scream for someone else. And then they’d say, “Glennon.” And the lady next to me, after a while, there was a lady cheering next to me and she turns to me and she says, “My gosh, you know so many people. It’s just wonderful.” And I was like, “I know, I know.”
Glennon Doyle:
But the point is that I really truly believe that anyone whose heart is hurting or who has lost a little faith in humanity should freaking go and stand and cheer at a marathon.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
Because it is seeing strangers love other strangers and seeing this triumph of the human spirit and triumph of humanity coming together to cheer each other on was healing. In my retirement, that’s what I want to be. I want to just be a professional marathon cheerer.
Abby Wambach:
I love it when you talk about retirement.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
That’s cute.
Glennon Doyle:
So, can you tell them, babe, about crossing the finish line because this was a really special situation.
Abby Wambach:
Well, first and foremost, before I got our playlist going, I called Coach Lou.
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Abby Wambach:
I FaceTime Coach Lou at the 24th mile because I wanted her to experience this. She was back in Naples, I think. And she did our program through and through. So, I just was overcome with gratitude for her and I wanted her to be included in this moment. So I FaceTime her real quick and she mentioned to me, “You’re ahead of schedule.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh, for the last two miles, since Leslie went ahead of me, I’ve been feeling bad about myself.” I was like, “I didn’t do good or I wasn’t doing it fast enough.” And here she was, she was like, “You’re ahead of schedule.” And I’m like, “Holy shit, I’m about to finish this marathon ahead of the schedule that I had planned. This is amazing.”
Glennon Doyle:
Isn’t that a beautiful metaphor. Whenever we compare ourselves to other people we think we’re behind.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
And we need somebody to remind us, listen, everyone listening. This is Glennon saying to you and to your earballs, you are ahead of schedule.
Abby Wambach:
Well, when you’re running through Central Park, because that’s at the end, the last bit, the 25th mile, I got a little emotional and I started to cry inside. And people were cheering me on. Some people recognized me, which was so outrageous. And I finally get to the finish line. I finally get to stop running. And so, I walked across the finish line. I was so grateful to be there that I really wanted to take in that moment. And so, I slowed myself down enough to literally walk across that finish line. And when I looked up, Shalane Flanagan was in my face and putting the medal around my neck.
Glennon Doyle:
Tell these people, in case any of the don’t know, who Shalane Flanagan is.
Abby Wambach:
Well, first of all, she was my running idol.
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Abby Wambach:
In 2017, she won the New York City Marathon. She’s an Olympian. She is a retired professional runner, marathoner. She’s an author. She’s a mom. She’s amazing. And I will never be an elite runner. She has always been an idol of mine. And also by the way, an idol of Coach Lou.
Glennon Doyle:
And she finished and waited an hour and a half.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. Sadly, she had to wait an hour and a half. That’s how fast she finished the marathon. But what was so special about her is since COVID the marathons kind of got rescheduled all grouped together. So, she was able to schedule a challenge for herself that she would run six marathons in six weeks and this New York City marathon would be her last.
Glennon Doyle:
So, did you hear that sweet pod squanders? This woman ran six marathons in six weeks. And then, she has inspired Abby so much and she waited so that she could be the one to put the medal over Abby’s head. I walked up and saw the end of that and was like, “Well, now I’m dead.”
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
I will never see anything more precious than that.
Abby Wambach:
She’s amazing. I actually saw her at the start line and I kind of sought her out because we had been DMing on IG and sure enough, she was like, “Oh my gosh, here you are.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll see you later.” I mean, never did I think for one second that she, of all people, who had just run … If I had just run six marathons in six weeks, I would be in the hospital.
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Abby Wambach:
And there she was still standing by the finish line with her medal on putting my medal on.
Glennon Doyle:
And speaking of Shalane Flanagan up at the most perfect times, ever, dedicated to giving back to the sport she loves. Shalane Flanagan is now an elite coach to the Bowerman Track Club, global spokesperson and a mom after retiring as one of America’s most decorated distance runners. Flanagan’s accolades include four-time Olympian, Olympian silver medalist, 2017 TCS New York City marathon champion, world cross country bronze medalist and multiple American record holder. She’s the third fastest American marathoner in history. Shalane is the fastest American woman to run the Boston marathon in two hours, 22 minutes and two seconds.
Glennon Doyle:
Along with her co-author Elyse Kopecki, she is the three-time New York Times bestselling author of Run Fast, Eat, Slow and Cook Fast, Eat, Slow and Rise And Run, which became an instant best seller. We have Shalane Flanagan here with us on You Can Do Hard Things. The one who does the hardest things. Pod squad, just so you know what we have going on right now. We have the two heroes who helped Abby through her marathon. We have Coach Lou who trained her and also our entire family physically and emotionally.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Coach Lou:
Yeah. So true.
Glennon Doyle:
And we have the Shalane. And Coach Lou, you’re a big fan of Shalane.
Coach Lou:
I am, I am a big fan. And I have to tell you that what you’ve done for girls in running is incredible. And I want you to know that when we talk about marathon running in my PE classes in coaching and the kids after the 2017 New York City Marathon, they came back to the class and like, “Wow, watching marathons are fun.” And also coaching girls and trying to talk about nutrition. When your book came out, it was incredible because that awkwardness of talking about performance and running with girls is so tricky. It’s almost, I don’t want to say, impossible but I was able to take your book and give it as gifts to my runners and my girls. You have no idea how far reaching just writing that book as a coach of 31 years, to be able to say, we can now have this conversation. You have no idea.
Coach Lou:
And I don’t know if Abby told you that there’s a little girl on our cross country club at Gulf Coast Runners, her name is Shalane and she was named after you. So she’s five years old. So, we’re like, “Go, Shalane,” she’s five. And so it’s just …
Shalane Flanagan:
Oh my god.
Coach Lou:
I don’t know if you realize the impact on running and just your professionalism and what you do for women in sports. And I’m just a huge fan.
Shalane Flanagan:
I need a pep talk from you everyday.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right.
Shalane Flanagan:
Like all of us, we all put our head down and we work hard and we hope we reach people by pursuing our passions and giving and being in service. Sometimes you don’t know, you don’t know what impact it is having. And so, I appreciate you sharing that with me because it fills me up to keep working hard at what I do. And yeah, it’s awesome. And this sport is incredible. I’ve met the most amazing people through running. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that with me.
Shalane Flanagan:
I’m curious. I want to know how Abby was as an athlete for you. Was she coachable or was she like a know it all? That’s what I’m always curious. You take an athlete from a different background and like, are they as coachable?
Coach Lou:
She’s extremely appreciative and willing to do whatever. And the dilemma in this training cycle with COVID was very difficult. I really thought at times that she was going to say, “Yeah, this is just not going to be for me.” Because when she first started training, she was on par to really having an amazing pace and time. And I was eager for her to run and see, to prove to herself what she can do. And so, when it was canceled, I started to worry. So I would give her a lot of space and then every now and again, I would check in and say, “Hey, I’m still thinking of you, just checking in.” So I kind of did accountability, but not over too much. Just enough to go, “I’m still waiting. And what do you need from me? Are you ready for the next cycle?”
Coach Lou:
So, I knew there was a point that there was where I think she was questioning. She could answer that. But then, her strength training coach, I think, really had a big difference in her. So, a lot of the running that she had done really allowed that strength training allowed her to keep some of that. Because she was going to do other marathons and I’m like, “You’re a New Yorker. Your first marathon has to be the New York Marathon …”
Shalane Flanagan:
My first marathon was New York and I’m from Boston. So that says a lot. I knew from day one that it was the best one in the world. So, unfortunately you’ve kind of like peaked a marathon life, Abby …
Abby Wambach:
Good.
Shalane Flanagan:
You can’t get better than that. I have run a million races around the world and it’s better than the Olympics. It’s better than anything. It’s so good. Yeah.
Coach Lou:
I told her that the best thing is when she comes to the finish line is that Shalane Flanagan is going to say her name, and then this whole thing happened last week and I’m like, “Are you kidding me?”
Glennon Doyle:
Shalane, how in the Sam hell did you decide to run six marathons in six weeks? Just please explain to us how this happened. And didn’t you have one day between two of those marathons to recover?
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah, a little less than 24 hours. Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. The Chicago and …
Shalane Flanagan:
Boston. Yeah. The short answer of everything is because I can and that because I feel like at times we don’t have to justify our goals all the time to everyone, but because I can, like I have the ability and I love it. But there are a lot of layers to why I wanted to do it. So the long answer is one, I’m retired in 2019. Shortly thereafter, I had double reconstructive knee surgeries, which was brutal. I didn’t run for a year. And during that year, I switched to becoming a coach and then we immediately hit a pandemic. And so it was like this goalless abyss and coming from being such a goal oriented back around and an athlete and using my body, I didn’t understand the connectedness between mental health and physical health.
Shalane Flanagan:
For me, moving my body 100% improves my mental wellbeing and so retiring and losing kind of that self identity, I felt like I had an imposter syndrome becoming a coach. And I just was struggling really hard like everyone. I had this one really shining light of adopting my son, Jack. So that was wonderful, but I felt this need to reclaim my body and my mind again. And I needed a hard goal. I needed something that was going to take me out of my comfort zone. Give me something to train for.
Shalane Flanagan:
I’m a driven person, but I need goals. I need something to hold me accountable and to get excited about. And when I saw this schedule release with the world majors running all six of them because of the pandemic, I thought, “Wow, that’s once in a lifetime opportunity to run all six within 42 days.” And I thought, “Someone should do that.” But then I was like, “Why not me? I could be capable of that. And as long as my knees were capable of it, I certainly, in my head, was capable of it. And I thought, “What better way to celebrate running in the running community reuniting.”
Shalane Flanagan:
And I just felt like I wanted to bring my girlfriends along with me and go on a running adventure around the world. And we did it. And I had the most fun I’ve ever had running in my entire life. And it was …
Glennon Doyle:
Really?
Shalane Flanagan:
Yes. It was like reuniting with my best friend. I didn’t realize how important running was to me until it was taken away. It was just a lot lighter. I like to describe it as like a different texture of a relationship for me with running. It was so serious when I was a professional athlete and it was about winning and it was about setting records and it was harsher. It was a lot of weight I was carrying and now running for me like I play running. Other sports like soccer, you get to play soccer. It’s awkward to say play running, but I feel like that’s important to feel joyful and playful with what you do.
Shalane Flanagan:
And I just felt the need to get back out there and my own kind of context of what running was for me.
Glennon Doyle:
Do you know what?
Abby Wambach:
Okay. Hold on a second.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m sorry.
Abby Wambach:
We just have to go back to the thing that she started with. You don’t have to explain your goals to anybody.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, because I can, oh shit. I also would like to say, because I can’t, cause how many people have asked me, “Glennon, are you going to run? Why? why not?” Because I can’t.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
And I don’t have to explain that. Right? If Shalane doesn’t have to explain, I can.
Abby Wambach:
Then, you don’t have to explain why you can’t.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my god.
Glennon Doyle:
I love the play running, Shlane. I noticed a difference in myself when I used to say, “I have to work on my book,” or “I have to work on this podcast or I have to work on whatever.” And when I say, “I get to play with this story,” or I say it differently, it feels different when …
Shalane Flanagan:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
I get that. What are you into?
Shalane Flanagan:
I get to run or I get to do this instead of like a have to, it’s a huge mental shift. So, yes.
Abby Wambach:
Just so you know, we are not going to sit here and talk all the ways through the marathon or your running career. I actually just want to get to know you as a human being, especially now that you are no longer competing professionally though, what you just did for those six weeks is outrageous and it feels like a professional thing that you just do. What are you into? What is a day in the life of Shalane look like?
Shalane Flanagan:
I like feeling needed for sure and I like to be busy. So, my day heavily includes family and coaching. And so, my son, he is one and a half years old, so he is not in any daycare yet. So my husband and I are full time with him. Fortunately here in Portland, I have my sister who lives across the river and then my parents 300 meters up the road. So, we have a nice little family pod of support. So, Jack’s well taken care of with family and myself and my husband. And my husband is a high school cross country and track coach. So, our schedules are really nice. I’m in the morning with the professional athletes training on the Nike campus. And then, basically I get to hang out with Jack the rest of the day and do fun podcasts like this or work on cookbooks or recipe testing.
Shalane Flanagan:
And then, my husband has evenings where he is working with high school kids. So, I feel like we feel really fulfilled and getting to work with incredible people.
Abby Wambach:
Because I know that running, you had to develop an immense amount of resilience mentally, physically, emotionally, what in your life now, cause I know you’re still running. I know that you still do that, but what in your life now is the thing that makes you have to … it’s like the transference, like you bring that and you plop it right into your daily life. What is the thing in your daily life that you have to bring that kind of resilience to?
Shalane Flanagan:
Well, I think parenting.
Glennon Doyle:
I was hoping you were going to say that, Shalane.
Shalane Flanagan:
Parenting is not easy and Jack isn’t even like … I’m kind of just keeping him alive at this point. It’s not like we’re parenting quite yet. I mean, we’re starting to feel like I’m having a mold on him and that’s why I wanted to bring him to all these marathons I ran around the world and the country is I want to him impacted by the people I’m with. I think they’re the great people. So yeah, I think parenting. And it’s exhausting and it’s wonderful and it’s hard. But he gives me a tremendous amount of purpose. I call him my life enhancer.
Shalane Flanagan:
Every day, I go to wake him up in the morning or get him and I’m like, “Dude, you got cooler and cuter at the same time in like 24 hours. How did you do that? It’s fascinating to watch children grow.” And man, I want a lot of kids in the future. I think they’re super fun. And so, to me, bringing my A game every day to make sure I take care of him, that right there, that’s a hard job.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Takes a lot of good. Takes a lot of freaking goo to parent well.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah. Yes.
Abby Wambach:
The other things that I’m desperate to know about you, are there things in your life that feel hard because if you run the way that you have run in your life, by the way, folks Shalane finished all of her six marathons in six weeks in under two hours and I think 47 minutes for each marathon, which is sub six minute marathon pace pile, six minute mile pace.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah. Someone, the other day, I was like, “If you average them altogether, I averaged a six minute mile pace across all of them.”
Abby Wambach:
Oh my gosh.
Shalane Flanagan:
So yeah.
Abby Wambach:
That’s wild. I mean, it’s incomprehensible to me what you’ve achieved, but to me it’s like that feels so hard in every possible way. What is the hardest thing that you’re actually dealing with in your life right now, other than parenting? Is there something extraordinarily hard or even mildly hard that you’re going through right now?
Shalane Flanagan:
Well, first of all, six marathons in 42 days was hard.
Glennon Doyle:
But what have you done for us lately, Shalane …
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Shalane Flanagan:
First of all, I just don’t want to think like, “Oh, that’s easy for me.” It’s not easy. And that’s why I wanted to do it. For me, when we choose to do hard things, I feel most alive. I feel the most beautiful and the most alive when I’m running. I do. Even though I’m sweaty and I’m grinding it out, I feel the best about myself. So, especially when you get to choose the hard thing that you want to do, like that’s obviously different. But yeah, I think, trying to find my way in the coaching world. The phrase like you can’t be what you can’t see in track and field and just in the coaching world and of what I’m in, there are not a lot of female coaches to emulate and to look up to.
Shalane Flanagan:
So, I’m trying to find my way in a world that is male heavy, for sure. And so, I’m trying to figure out, and I have great mentors and they’re all men. So, I’m just trying to figure out how I can do the best possible job as a coach. And hopefully there are some little girls out there that are like, “Oh, I want to get into coaching too at that level.” There are plenty of amazing female coaches at a variety of other levels. But at this professional level, it’s very male dominant. And so to me, it’s hard trying to figure out where I fit in and what are my strengths and what are my assets and not feel like an imposter at times.
Shalane Flanagan:
I show up to the Olympic Games and I look around and there’s maybe like one or two other female coaches. And so, just trying to navigate that and make sure I do great jobs, obviously inspire more females to get into coaching.
Glennon Doyle:
Do you have a cohort? Because we hear this from so many women, because in every lane there are the ones like you, right, the women that have no one ahead of them to look, so they’re just pioneers. They can’t follow anybody.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Do you have a cohort of other women who are in other industries, but in your similar situation?
Shalane Flanagan:
Yes. Yeah. Someone that used to run the New York Road Runners and the TCS New York City Marathon, Mary Whittenburg, she has been someone who I’ve looked up to for a long time and she used to be there and now she’s dabbled in cycling and other sports and run some major companies. And I met with her for coffee the day after in New York and just picked her brain on how can I learn from you? What am I doing wrong? Just assessing everything and having someone like Mary, and there’s a variety of other women, but for sure she’s been someone I’ve looked up to. I mean, reading incredible books, I’m constantly trying to read for inspiration and learn from the best.
Abby Wambach:
You have written a book, you and your friend, Elyse Kopecki, do you say?
Shalane Flanagan:
Kopecki. Yes. She was there at the finish. Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes I remember, Elyse.
Abby Wambach:
Rise and Run, it’s a cookbook also recipes, rituals, and runs to fill your day.
Glennon Doyle:
Shalane, we’re raising two girls. I have dealt with eating disorders my whole life. And so, I am scared shitless constantly to talk to my girls about food because I’m so scared of saying the wrong thing. And so I love what Coach Lou said about your book being a way to talk about food as something that we do so that we can fuel, so that we can perform, so that we can … instead of about how we look.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
So, it’s not about how we appear. It’s about how we feel and about how we can move. And it just feels hopeful.
Abby Wambach:
How is it writing a cookbook because I love cooking?
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah. So, this is our third book and I’ll be honest at the beginning, Elyse and I came up with this idea over just a home cooked meal. And I was expressing to her how I wanted to extend my career a few more years to make another Olympic team. But I just felt under fueled and undernourished. And I didn’t feel like I knew how to fuel myself for these long races, like the marathon and that I was just feeling kind of just blah, like I didn’t have enough energy. And she had just come back from culinary school. And granted Elyse had been working at Nike and sports marketing and a full, successful job. And she pivoted hard to go to culinary school because she just felt this pull and draw that Americans were under fueling and not eating the right food.
Shalane Flanagan:
And there was a lot of diet trends and misinformation. She and I grew up in the era of like low fat and no fat diet. And so, we came up with this idea to start using me as kind of a guinea pig from what she learned in culinary school, which was to incorporate the healthy fats, the avocado, the olive oil, to indulge in delicious food. And it should be nourishing and indulgent and satiating. And as soon as I started to eat the way she was recommending, there’s no calorie counts, no grams of this, no grams of that because that makes you crazy.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Shalane Flanagan:
In my mind makes me crazy.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Shalane Flanagan:
And she’s like, “We only need you to be worrying about the splits on your watch and how many miles you’re running each week. You shouldn’t be worrying about all that.” So, in all of our books, there’s no … And it drives some people crazy because they’re not used to it, but we don’t have calorie counts. We don’t do that. And I felt energized as soon as I started to change my diet the way Elyse had recommended. So I was like, “We have to share this information. Maybe someone will publish us. Maybe they won’t.” So, we called it like Shalane and Elyse’s cooking project. And before you knew it though, we were published by a real publisher. And we became a New York Times bestseller, which was like.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Shalane Flanagan:
So, now we’re on our third book. There’s just more about us and the emphasis and overall message is how you start your day can transcend and affect the whole rest of the day. And even the night before, how you prepare and the rituals impact that next whole day. And it’s just like those little things just really make a big difference.
Glennon Doyle:
Tell us about some little things because I’ll tell you the truth, that’s what got me about the title of your book. You know it wasn’t the rise and run part.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
But rituals because I don’t think we pay enough attention to the little rituals in our days that really change everything. What are some of yours?
Shalane Flanagan:
Well, so, the next night before, definitely, as soon as Jack goes down, I try to prepare for the next day. And so, that means like meal prepping so that we can have a less hectic morning, like when you have kids and you’re trying to get them off to school and Jack’s not that age yet, but I can sense like there’s this anxiousness and busyness and to enjoy each other’s company. So I prep the night before as best I can. But then in the morning I really try to be excited for the day. And so, one ritual that Jack and I have is music is really, for some reason, speaks to me. So I put on music every single morning and it’s a different genre. It could be rap. It could be reggae, who knows. And he and I do a little dance party.
Shalane Flanagan:
And, to me, that’s our ritual of how we start our morning, just dancing and some good music, good vibes. Sometimes, just simple as like lighting a candle. So for me, lighting a candle like that nice glow and then just some good music. And then, to me, coffee is very ritualistic. And then just having good food that you feel like is going to like give you energy for the rest of the day is essential.
Glennon Doyle:
I agree with you. When I had little ones, it was so important to me because I could be in a crappy mood and not feel like being like an energetic, awesome mom. But when you put on music, it feels like you’re being an awesome mom.
Abby Wambach:
Like you’re doing something.
Shalane Flanagan:
You kind of have to fake your way. I have this saying that I got from a life coach, he’s like, “Mood follows action.” So, you have to just kind of go do the thing. So, I make myself dance. I may not be in the mood too, but I make myself dance. And then before I know it, my mood has shifted. So, that applies to so many things, trainings, whatever. But the mood follows the action has been my motto the last year.
Abby Wambach:
That’s kind of how I feel about what the marathon was for me.
Glennon Doyle:
I wish I could turn around and just interview Abby and the experience that you two had in New York.
Abby Wambach:
I just think like the marathon for me, it was an experience of learning what it was to become human and then realizing maybe it was an experience to … every step was to realize like, I am not specifically those emotions …
Glennon Doyle:
You can get through them. You are not them. They pass through you.
Abby Wambach:
That’s exactly right.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s what I kept thinking when you were saying that. You weren’t the emotion. You were having the emotion, you were the one who continued on despite the emotion.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s like a meditative …
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
Like when you realize you are the observer, you’re not the feeling.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Shalane Flanagan:
Because if you indulge in all of those feelings, you wouldn’t get to the finish line. You have to push through them. I wish there was like these bubbles that would pop up over the top of runners’ heads, because it would be amazing to see what people think about because you go through such a transformative journey in those 26 miles. Like you go from elated thinking like, “I’ve got this, I’m going to crush this,” to then the next mile, you’re like, “I definitely don’t have this. This is bad.” You start to get really negative and then working through that negative talk.
Shalane Flanagan:
The rollercoaster is insane what can happen in 26 miles. So, that’s why people are so emotional, I feel like, when they finish, because they’re like, “I work through a lot of stuff out there to get to this finish line.” Not just in the race, but in the training too. The training to me is transformative in itself. But then the actual 26 miles, it asks a lot of you physically and mentally and I think more so the mental aspect totally is big. You can completely talk yourself out of getting to that finish line very easily.
Abby Wambach:
Yes. Yes. Because there’s so many seconds that you can actually stop running.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh sweetheart. You said to me, when she finished, she got past you, she got through the emotional coronation and then she got to me and I said, “Are you okay?” And she said, her exact words were, “The thing about finishing a marathon is that you can’t stop running ever.” But I was like, “Yeah, I think that’s right, babe.”
Abby Wambach:
Can’t stop ever.
Glennon Doyle:
I feel like we knew that before this, but it was blowing your mind that you didn’t stop for three hours and 40 minutes.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. It’s one of the things that I’m most proud of in my life.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. That’s why she’s still wearing the medal three days later on our talk.
Shalane Flanagan:
I love it.
Glennon Doyle:
Shalane, can we talk just before we end, I want to talk about, because when you say the trauma and getting through one mile feeling like you’re on top of the world, I’ve got this, the next mile, you’re feeling, I don’t got this. I mean, truly, when you’re talking, that’s how I feel all day. I’m not even being funny. That’s how my whole day is. And that’s why I think some people with like anxiety or depression, we don’t need to run the marathon. We’re like, how you like us now? That’s how Tuesday is for us. Okay. That’s a Tuesday. But I do want to talk about how do you feel about the cheerers on the side. Because Shalane, I had one of the most inspiring days of my life watching you all run, because I felt like the world … I really have this feeling of like the world needs runners. They need people that are doing this thing, but the runners need the cheerers.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Shalane Flanagan:
It’s a symbiotic relationship. It is essential. Why was New York so special? It’s not, yes, the runners were great, but it’s the fans. I mean, I have never felt the intensity and I don’t know if it’s post COVID, but I have never felt so much love and intensity being thrown at the runners than I did this last marathon. That’s why I said to Abby, I’m like, “I think you may have peaked because this was the best New York I’ve ever been a part of.” It was insane.
Glennon Doyle:
People crying.
Shalane Flanagan:
I mean, I had chills and like my body, every hair was standing up when I think about it. I just felt like my sensors were on fire. It was intense. And it literally fuels people forward. They know that they’re going to get to the finish line because of the love that they’re receiving from the sidelines.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Shalane Flanagan:
It makes it a whole new experience. I don’t think people realize that that’s what’s so special about the marathon is that relationship that they have with the people who are on the side of the road supporting. That is everything. It makes it worthwhile.
Abby Wambach:
You won the 2017 New York City Marathon, and I can imagine everybody knows you as you’re running. So, you must experience just Shalane every step. I mean, I will say this, a couple of people recognized me along the path and that was really helpful. I was like, “Yes. Somebody knows me. I got to go a little bit faster.”
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
Everybody must have said Shalane. That must be so energetic just to go through. I mean, if we’re not on a bridge, we’re on a street and there are people there, there’s nothing quite like it.
Glennon Doyle:
And probably coming from COVID you guys, because it was like, we were all so alone. And to be in a space where strangers, we had all been through this thing where we were all locked at our homes and then to be in this space where strangers were together again and connected and loving each other and cheering for each other without knowing each other, it was like the antithesis of everything we’ve just been through.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
The healing of the brokenness of before.
Abby Wambach:
I just have to say before we end here, I’ve met a lot of inspiring people in my life. And for the most part, what they do is really, really amazing with their sport. But there’s something different about the running community that I’ve never really quite experienced before. And I don’t know, when you’re out on the course, I just had this feeling like we were all strangers, but we were all the same.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
There’s this unification or like a mold, like a smooshing of human beings or something. It’s hard to explain. And I feel like you having been such a leader and still being a leader, as a coach, I just think that you are one of, if not the most badass human beings I’ve ever, athlete especially, but just like, it’s so incredible what you have been able to do with your life.
Glennon Doyle:
And not just because you’re a great runner, but because you’re such an incredible supporter of other women and of other human beings, that’s what makes me feel like you’re a magic little running elf, Shalane Flanagan.
Shalane Flanagan:
I’m speechless right now. That really means the world coming from both of you. You have no idea. And I think I messaged you Abby that morning, I was like, “The running community is so excited to have you be a part of this journey,” because you know what, your journey was the same as mine, we took those same steps. We covered the same distance, the same road. And that’s what I think I love about running is like Bob who finished his in nine hours goes through the same thing that I went through. We really did. I know my steps were a little bit quicker than Bob’s, but at the end of the day, we went through the same thing and to share that there is just a formation and a bond that it’s just like, if someone’s like, “I’ve run a marathon,” they’re like, “Oh, I know you.” They get you.
Shalane Flanagan:
So, yeah, I hope you’re excited to take on more adventures. I don’t know if you’ve set another goal. I don’t have a goal yet beyond just getting back to some other things in my life. But, yeah, let me know the next time you run a marathon, I want to be there. It was so great to be there for you and be with you and meet your family. You have an awesome support team. Clearly, your coach is great and …
Glennon Doyle:
Coach Lou.
Abby Wambach:
She’s a badass.
Shalane Flanagan:
Coach Lou is awesome.
Glennon Doyle:
When you’re in L.A. will you come visit us, bring little Jack and come visit us? We’d love to have you.
Shalane Flanagan:
We absolutely would love that. Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
You’re always welcome. We love you so much. Let’s go to the pod squader of the week.
Steph:
Hi, Glennon and Sister and Abby. My name is Steph and I am actually calling in not with a question, but to share a very special moment and in hopes that the person who made this moment happen, listens to this podcast and hears my message. A year ago, I could not run more than a quarter mile without stopping or hating every second of it. And last Sunday, I ran my first half marathon. I ran the San Francisco Half Marathon. A year ago, I decided I was going to do the hard thing and I was going to become a runner. And that’s what I did.
Steph:
The race was the whole hardest thing I’ve ever done, or one of the hardest. And just as I was thinking, I physically and mentally could not do this. Also, as I was approaching the last of the San Francisco Hills in the race, I saw a lady holding a sign that read, “You can do hard things.” And the word hard was painted in cheetah print. And I swear I had to hold myself together from crying because it was such a special moment. I felt like that sign and that lady were placed at the bottom of that hill for a reason. And those words and everything I learned with your book and through this podcast pushed me to finish the race and I finished and I felt very proud of myself.
Steph:
And I just wanted to share this with you guys. Thank you for the community you’ve built. Hopefully, you can motivate someone to do that hard thing that they think they can’t do, you can do it. But also in hope that that lady who was holding the sign hears this and knows how important it was for me and just to thank her.
Abby Wambach:
This is the kind of shit that makes me cry. I mean, Rudy …
Shalane Flanagan:
That’s awesome.
Abby Wambach:
Any kind of sport moment.
Glennon Doyle:
And Steph that is proof that we need cheerers.
Shalane Flanagan:
We do.
Glennon Doyle:
We need cheerers. And people doing the hard things and people cheering for the people doing the hard things. I wish everybody had cheerers. I wish teachers had people outside their classrooms with signs and like ER nurses and like, oh my god. Okay. Shalane, is there anything you want to say to that pod squader?
Shalane Flanagan:
You never realize, at times, the effect you’re going to have on people. So, always put your best self out there and just keep doing great things because you never know. And hearing stuff like that, it reinforces what you guys are doing. So …
Glennon Doyle:
All right. So, that’s our next great thing we just got from Shalane, put our best self out there each moment. That’s our next great thing. And if we can’t run, make a sign.
Shalane Flanagan:
I love it.
Abby Wambach:
Well, here’s the thing, you’re either a runner or you’re a cheerer. Either way, both are needed.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right.
Abby Wambach:
Shalane, thank you for coming and being a part of this podcast. This is our pride and joy and you’ll never understand how much that moment meant. We keep laughing about it. Because I’m like, “How did?” I looked up and there you were and then you were putting this medal over my … And then, you know what they tried to do. They tried to give me a different medal. And I was like, “No.”
Glennon Doyle:
She wouldn’t let them.
Abby Wambach:
No. No. This is the medal. This is my medal.
Shalane Flanagan:
That’s the one I picked out for you. I was like, “I need a good one for Abby.” Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
And to Coach Lou, thank you, Coach Lou. We love you so much. For all of the teachers and coaches out there, please never ever doubt the impact you have on children and families. Coach Lou has changed our family’s life and continues to from Florida when we’re not even in her classes anymore. So thank you to all the teachers and coaches. Thank you, Shalane. Pod squad, we love you. When life gets hard, don’t forget, we can do hard things.
Shalane Flanagan:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
See you next week.
Shalane Flanagan:
See you in the next marathon.
Glennon Doyle:
We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review and follow the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts. Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn’t, don’t worry about it. It’s fine.