Christen Press & Tobin Heath: THE OLYMPICS! THE SOCCER!
July 30, 2024
Glennon Doyle:
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things, Pod Squad.
Abby Wombach:
Welcome.
Glennon Doyle:
You know who does hard things?
Abby Wombach:
We do. Olympians do hard things.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. Olympians.
Abby Wombach:
This is the Olympics edition.
Glennon Doyle:
Today, we have three Olympians, and also me. And not only are they three Olympians, but they’re the three most precious, amazing Olympians in all the land.
Abby Wombach:
Okay.
Glennon Doyle:
And they are you …
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
Congrats on all the success.
Abby Wombach:
I know. But Honey, Christen might appreciate this the most out of the three of us, I think, but I’d like to be powerful and strong Olympian.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. You’re very strong and brave.
Abby Wombach:
I don’t want to be precious Olympian.
Glennon Doyle:
You’re not precious and cute. You are strong and very tough Olympians.
Abby Wombach:
That’s what I want.
Glennon Doyle:
Christen Press and Tobin Heath …
Abby Wombach:
I don’t know what you guys prefer.
Glennon Doyle:
And Abby Wambach. Let’s talk about Christen Press first.
Abby Wombach:
Okay.
Glennon Doyle:
Christen Press is a two-time World Cup champion, two-time Olympic gold medalist, and an equal pay pioneer. She’s one of the all-time top 10 goalscorers on the US Women’s National Team, and currently plays for Angel City FC.
Abby Wombach:
Woot-woot!
Glennon Doyle:
Christen led the US Women’s National Team’s historic achievement of equal pay and served as the leader of the US Women’s National Team Players Association for two years. Christen is co-founder and co-CEO of our favorite, RE–INC, a values-led brand. I mean, let’s just start with that. What’s that? That is a thing.
Abby Wombach:
That’s rare.
Glennon Doyle:
They’re starting it. They’re starting a thing called a values-led brand that exists to reimagine the way women are seen and experienced in sports. Thank you, Baby Jesus. Tobin Heath is a two-time World Cup champion and two-time Olympic gold medalist known as one of the most skillful and entertaining players in the game. You will know her as the one who appears that her feet are disconnected from her legs.
Abby Wombach:
You know this.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Throughout her club career, Heath has played for PSG, the Portland Thorns, Manchester United, and Arsenal. Tobin has taken her vision, leadership, and creativity off the pitch and into her roles as co-founder and co-CEO of RE-INC, and host of the critically acclaimed The RE-CAP show, which everyone is watching.
Abby Wombach:
It’s so good, you guys.
Glennon Doyle:
Tobin will be going live directly following each US Women’s Soccer Olympic Games to debrief with the community. And so if you want to watch and then wait to know what you think, you can find out what to think after the game.
Abby Wombach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
Right? And then you wait to talk to anyone until after you watch, and then you just say Tobin’s ideas as yours, and then you sound amazing.
Abby Wombach:
That’s right. Yeah. You’ll be smarter for it.
Tobin Heath:
That’s exactly what I do.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. That’s what it’s for. We’re so excited that you are here because we cannot wait to talk about this team and the last two games.
Abby Wombach:
Yes. So let’s just set the scene for the folks listening. We’re recording this on a Monday. They’ll be listening on a Tuesday. The Women’s National Team has gone through two games. They beat Zambia 3-0. And then on Sunday afternoon, they beat Germany 4-1. Big games putting us through to the quarterfinals. We don’t know if we’re going to go out one or two from our group, but we have a third game to play.
Glennon Doyle:
But we’re talking about the second game now.
Abby Wombach:
Well, no, I was talking about all of the games.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, okay. I want to talk about the second game because that was the most fun thing that’s ever happened.
Abby Wombach:
Okay.
Tobin Heath:
Wait, can I ask a question?
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
The jerseys.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
Abby’s wearing her 20 jersey. I get that. And you’re wearing 2024. Is this also a political campaign?
Abby Wombach:
Oh, that’s interesting.
Glennon Doyle:
You do know that everything for me is a political campaign.
Tobin Heath:
I know. So I’m wondering is this your actual number, Glennon, or is this a statement?
Glennon Doyle:
So …
Abby Wombach:
That is hilarious.
Glennon Doyle:
The team …
Abby Wombach:
I’ve never even thought of that.
Glennon Doyle:
Somebody from the team …
Abby Wombach:
Beathy. Beathy sent us these.
Glennon Doyle:
Sent us these jerseys. Mine has my actual name on the back. I believe that they understand what a crucial role that I play in explaining soccer to the people. Okay? That’s what I am accepting this honor as.
Abby Wombach:
They will only believe you if you’re wearing a US Women’s National Team jersey.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right. That’s right.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Beathy, he sent them to us and we were wearing them yesterday for the game, and we’re wearing them right now for the taping of this podcast.
Tobin Heath:
Well, looking at Glennon, you just fit in. You look like one of the gals.
Glennon Doyle:
Thanks so much, Tobin. We’re going to use that as the clip.
Abby Wombach:
Do you understand what a big compliment Tobin just gave you?
Glennon Doyle:
I do. That’s why I’m going to use it as the bit.
Abby Wombach:
One of the gals.
Glennon Doyle:
Yep. I know.
Abby Wombach:
That’s a huge compliment.
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Abby Wombach:
Okay.
Glennon Doyle:
I really, really am feeling it deeply in my bones.
Abby Wombach:
Okay, enough about us. You are both here to answer our questions. So what are your thoughts about the Germany game that we just watched yesterday? And, I don’t know, Glennon also wants to know what your feelings are …
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, mostly that.
Abby Wombach:
About the team.
Christen Press:
That’s how we like to take it. A little bit of football and a little bit of feelings.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, yeah.
Christen Press:
Well, thank you for having us back on my favorite podcast. I’m so happy to be here. And we are full-swing Olympic mode. So much joy. Our team is energizing and exciting us in a way that we haven’t, honestly, since we were on it, which is a lot. But they’re making us all so proud, right? They’re so fun to watch, so dynamic, a little bit of humility with people being good teammates, making unselfish runs. That’s really exciting. And you know what I’ll say? When you play a top opponent, you can sometimes, early in a tournament, you get this paralysis where it’s always 0-0 or just a stale game. So for us to come out against Germany and just play like we were just having fun, I just feel like we inspired the whole country and made us all believe that we could do this again.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
I agree. I agree. It felt like, “Oh, there they are.”
Christen Press:
“There they are.”
Abby Wombach:
“Oh, there they are,” and I haven’t said that since ’19. I haven’t said that since ’19. And I mean this in the most … This has happened throughout my career. There were many spells that we couldn’t figure out who the hell we were. What do you guys think is the difference? What do you think that, if we get it, what are some of the factors that you believe as to why this is happening for our team?
Tobin Heath:
Well, Glennon, you’re a writer and there’s many words on the page. So think of it as 11 players, or 11 words on the page. And you can get those 11 words perfectly right and you’re like, “Oh my gosh. I’m a genius,” and you can get the 11 words completely wrong and you’re like, “This makes no sense,” and that’s exactly what it’s like when you put 11 players on the field. And not only do you have to put the right combination of words on the page, but then you have to make them all kind of orchestrate and collaborate and make the reader feel something and do something.
And I think that’s what Emma Hayes has gotten right. These players have been here. It wasn’t like we just lifted up a rock and were like, “Oh my gosh. Players.” These players have been here. They’re very good. We’ve seen them be very good. We just haven’t really seen them collectively be good together. And I say this over and over again, I think we are just scratching the surface on how good this group … And for us, as attacking players, I think that’s where our mind always goes to for this group, and especially the attacking players, how good they can actually be.
Christen Press:
That was so poetic.
Glennon Doyle:
That was so poetic.
Tobin Heath:
Glennon just pulled it out of me.
Christen Press:
I know. You must be inspired.
Abby Wombach:
That was amazing. I mean, talk about metaphors. I walk into a room and then she’s like, “You know what that walking into the room is like?” I’m like, “I don’t care.”
Glennon Doyle:
And Abby’s like, “It’s just a kitchen table, damn it. It’s a table.”
Abby Wombach:
It’s Jesus. That was special, though. And I think what you’re saying though, Tobin, and I want to get into the front three because we all love Alex Morgan. But her being left off the roster, in a way, it’s given these three players permission to go for it, like your mom would say. You know what I’m saying? That, for me, is like, “Oh, wow.” There’s a stability that I am seeing, a sense of confidence in the three of them that they’re not fighting for their life out there, that they’re playing free and confident.
And making the Olympic roster is so difficult. It’s so much more competitive with it being only 16 outfield players. It’s unreal how difficult it is. But to watch them connect … And Tobin, I was watching some of your stuff and you’re so right. You pointed out some stuff in your podcast, on The RE-CAP Show, that I thought of when I was watching. Soph’s first goal, number one, I want you to talk us through that, and then Mal’s goal, I think that those are two … who was your player of the match? Who was your player of the match, Tobin?
Glennon Doyle:
I know who Tobin’s player of the match is.
Tobin Heath:
Oh, they watched The Debrief.
Abby Wombach:
Oh, yeah.
Tobin Heath:
They did.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, we were in it.
Tobin Heath:
Was yours the same as mine for the player of the match?
Christen Press:
I think you kind of plus-oned it a little.
Tobin Heath:
I plus-oned you, yeah. I think that’s something that we’re very passionate about when we give our analysis of the game is to kind of think of it through our eyes and our lens. And very much behind the scenes, we always kind of applaud the little things that nobody really sees, but that makes the biggest difference. And I think on the best teams, the teams that applaud the little things more are the more successful teams. And Mal’s a big player. She’s going to get praised regardless, but I want to give her praise for the little things because those are what are making this team have these big decisions and these big outcomes. And the first goal, like you mentioned, Abby, which Soph scored, which looked like an easy goal for Soph to score, was made possible by a super selfless run by Mal. And listen, Abby has benefited from a lot of these super selfish runs.
Abby Wombach:
That’s right.
Tobin Heath:
And honestly, I will run every time selflessly for Abby because there’s a 99% chance if I run selfish …
Abby Wombach:
Selflessly.
Christen Press:
Selflessly.
Tobin Heath:
Selflessly for Abby, that I trust that she will score. And what Mal did was she made a run, a super dynamic run knowing that she wouldn’t score because that would help her teammates score.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Tobin Heath:
And that’s the difference between team. And then on the second goal that, then, Mal scored … When you talk about how you’re going to score goals, when you’re dreaming about them in your mind, they don’t look like this.
Abby Wombach:
Nope.
Tobin Heath:
They don’t look like you following up a shot when everybody else is sleeping.
Abby Wombach:
Nope. Nope. No, they don’t. But guess what? Counts the same.
Tobin Heath:
Yep.
Abby Wombach:
Counts the same. Same points. It counts the same. I love that.
Christen Press:
That’s such an Abby saying.
Abby Wombach:
I love that.
Christen Press:
Doesn’t matter how. It matters how many.
Abby Wombach:
That’s exactly right. Doesn’t matter how. It’s how many.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s four times a day. It doesn’t even matter if we’re talking about soccer.
Abby Wombach:
Still goes. I just think that that’s so important because to me, not only the pointing out of that kind of selfless run by Mal, it’s like that’s the a-ha. We are now, even as experiencing as fans, as viewers, we’re looking for the good instead of looking for the thing to critique or looking for the bad. It’s just the nature of it, right? When we have this feeling of joy and structure and commitment and selflessness, we then get to just look for the good things. And then when it’s the opposite, when it feels like individual and clenchy and ball-hoggy and not fluid, then we’re just looking for all of that. So it’s this interesting energy shift that it’s like, “That’s all I saw.” And it wasn’t just because they were playing well.
Because look, there were a couple players that I thought didn’t play as well, just wasn’t as obvious because of the scoreline. There are a couple players that I thought should get subbed off a little bit sooner, maybe have a little bit more sub happening throughout the game. That’s fine. But still, I was vibing with the team for the first time in years and I was like, “Yes, go. Go Trinity. Just keep going.” Every time that Tobin or Christen or [inaudible 00:14:00], you guys would get faced up with a defender on the sideline. It was just like we knew what was going to happen and it was going to be a 1-V-1 battle out wide, and she’s going to figure something out and then it leads to a goal. I get so excited about it.
Christen Press:
Well, I actually love what you said about the impact of Alex not being on the roster. It’s something that we talked about a lot and only time will tell if that was the right decision. It’s pretty much if they win, then fine.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. Exactly.
Christen Press:
That’s just how every decision goes on the US Women’s National Team.
Abby Wombach:
Exactly.
Christen Press:
But we had talked about at the prior World Cup, there was a shadow over a Soph, or a player like Trinity, who could emerge as what we’ve talked a lot about as the face of the team. Like Abby, you had this beautiful handoff as the face of the team to Alex, and you mentored her. And then you had times where you both were the top players and you competed and you pushed each other. And then there was a time where you rolled off the team, and that’s the natural transition of this. And you never know when the right time is going to be. What?
Tobin Heath:
I was going to say but there’s nothing natural about the US Women’s National Team.
Abby Wombach:
That’s true.
Tobin Heath:
As much as we have this beautiful picture of Abby passing this torch off to Alex, it’s complicated. There are complicated feelings in this. There’s big egos. There’s generational talent. There’s the winning. And I don’t think the passing of the baton is as romanticized as we make it seem, and I also think that maybe a passing of the baton is easier between two people than it is between others.
Abby Wombach:
It’s true. But also, it’s fake. It’s not real.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
It’s not. I, Abby, having been in a position where I felt like Mia passed the baton to me, and then I passed the baton to Alex, that’s just in our heads.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
The truth is statistics prove everything. And the truth is Mia went out and scored a shit-ton of goals. I went out and scored a shit-ton of goals. Alex went out and scored a shit-ton of goals. You know what I’m saying? It’s this thing. It’s like media, beautiful storyline. But at the end of the day, it’s cutthroat. You’re either good enough, young enough, fast enough, scoring enough to be on the squad, or you’re not. And then when a new coach comes in and they just want to start fresh, I totally understand. Totally get it.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
Totally get why Emma would want to go this way, and I’m fucking heartbroken for Alex because I know what it’s like to be in that position. I understand it’s a business. And I know Alex is going to be fine, but I know that she would’ve probably preferred to walk off on her own two feet and with her own choice.
Christen Press:
But that’s it. I feel like all of the team dynamics are in that tension between this beautiful thing that is real, and for me there was a handoff, and also the reality that it’s not as pretty as it always looks on ESPN.
Abby Wombach:
That’s right.
Christen Press:
And fighting for your spot and your role is what makes you great. Without that competition, without that healthy dose of the other side, the dark side of it, you’d never be pushed to your limits. And so I think what makes me excited is there’s kind of a vacancy and there hasn’t been a vacancy in … When I talk about the face of the team, I really mean who’s doing all of the media and kind of has that responsibility to represent and symbolize the team, and that’s a little bit of a gap. We haven’t seen who that player is emerging. And I think it’s an interesting dynamic to your frontline going into a tournament when you have multiple people that could fill that role that are great players, super dynamic, fun to watch, cute, marketable, all the things. And what I see is an amount of humility and teamwork that I wasn’t sure we were going to get with this vacancy.
Abby Wombach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Is there something to the discipline that they keep talking about? Because I’m sensing … Let me just explain something to you guys about soccer. Okay. It feels, to me, like the discipline with which they’re now playing on the field …
Abby Wombach:
You mean the structure and the discipline that Rose Lavelle talked about Emma bringing.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, yeah.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
So my favorite thing about creativity in the world, that is the only way that I can survive, is the idea that structure liberates.
Christen Press:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
That I can be wildly creative from 7:00 AM to 8:30. I need pockets to be in then, right? So it feels to me like the structure and the discipline that they’re playing with on the field is translating into the way they’re talking about each other and the game off the field. They are being so humble and every time one of them talks, they’re talking about the other one so quickly …
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
And they’re putting team above individual in every interview, just like they are on the field.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Right?
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Doesn’t it seem like maybe it’s purposeful that nobody’s coming forward as the star right now because they’re all kind of sharing?
Christen Press:
And it’s not our normal playbook.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Christen Press:
Normally, we go into world championships and we’re like, “We win or we die. Anything’s a failure except for gold. And they’re going in and they’re sort of like, “We have a respect for all of our opponents and we have respect,” and it’s a different playbook and it’s surprising to me.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, me too.
Christen Press:
But I kind of like it.
Glennon Doyle:
Me too.
Christen Press:
As long as they win.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Remember Emma said …
Abby Wombach:
I don’t like it.
Glennon Doyle:
Somebody asked her …
Christen Press:
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing.
Glennon Doyle:
About how it was going to go, and she goes, “Well, I don’t know. I have to see.” And I was like, “Did a leader just say, ‘I don’t know’? Because that is amazing.” That’s a posture.
Abby Wombach:
I think that the posture is she’s so new right now. It’s hard for her to make a clear assessment of the totality of her team and what the expectations are. And it’s good. It’s working for them right now. That won’t be the way that it lives forever with Emma. She’s going to have to be able to stand in her own opinion. But I think what she’s trying to do is earn a championship first and then talk about, “Let’s talk about expectations later.” Because at the end of the day, this team hasn’t won anything in a while.
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Christen Press:
And I would also say the posturing is also to the rest of the world, right?
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah.
Christen Press:
And managers tell their team and everyone sort of speaks knowing that everybody’s listening. So there’s a little bit of a flex, I feel, in being like, “Oh, we don’t think we’re the best anymore. We’re going to have to earn it.” That’s a little bit …
Tobin Heath:
And then coming in and beating Germany 4-1.
Christen Press:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Cool.
Christen Press:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. That’s cool.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah. I actually think what I’ve noticed in Emma in just her time with the US team is she’s a very psychological coach. She does it with the media. She does it with how she identifies and speaks about her players.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah, so I do think that so far, tactically, she had her clear priorities. Look, she hasn’t done anything extraordinary with the tactics. She has not. We’re playing the simplest form of football out there and that’s on purpose. She’s like, “How can I just get this 11 on the field as much as possible with one another, just speaking the same language? Let’s just do Soccer 101 together.” And to your point, creativity comes after that. It’s like this team just needed to do Soccer 101 together.
Abby Wombach:
That’s right.
Tobin Heath:
And it’s amazing how much, then, they’re able to be confident and be able to show their individual personalities and be able to be brave on a world stage. And I think she’s almost dumbed down the football and upped up the ability to psychoanalyze what’s needed for this team.
Glennon Doyle:
Wow.
Abby Wombach:
Yes, and it’s the leader that we’ve been needing.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
So to me, she feels like kind of a psychological guru. That’s what I called her this morning. I was like, “She feels a little bit like she’s gotten her mind into the hearts and minds of the players.” Have you heard of the story about when she was coaching at Chelsea? That early days, Arsenal would beat them a lot. And she noticed that her players were really nervous whenever they would play Arsenal, like outsized nerves. She’s like, “This doesn’t make sense.” So she made her team wear Arsenal jerseys during practices for a long enough period of time so that the red wouldn’t upset them.
Tobin Heath:
The red always wins.
Abby Wombach:
You know what I’m saying? So to me, I think her psychology game is on point.
Tobin Heath:
Yep.
Abby Wombach:
Glennon and I are talking about how she speaks of her players in the media, how she’s almost giving them each little brands of who they are …
Glennon Doyle:
It feels like she’s branding them.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah, she’s branding them. Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
To live within. You might think that that’s right or wrong, but as a coach, when you’re coming in, you want somebody to know what they can bring and you want somebody to live fully in that little self of theirs that she’s trying to build. Because she’s like, “Here’s how I see you. And if you bring this, you’re going to get minutes. If you bring this, then you’re going to give us the very best and that’s what I need from you.” Doesn’t mean you can’t grow and make gains, but I just think that the psychology of it has freed the players up to just be themselves.
Tobin Heath:
Absolutely. And I think this is a time where these players, they’re so defined by outside noise. This is a generation that is a social media generation. They don’t even know who they are unless their comment section is telling them.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
And I truly believe this is a way to coach this next generation, to have the leader, to have the person that then is going to give the brand to the media to tell them what to say about their players that they’re then going to receive onto themselves. I think it’s super smart and I think it’s working.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. You mentioned in The Debrief or The RE-CAP … Do you guys call it The Debrief and RE-CAP, or is it two separate things?
Tobin Heath:
Ooh. So The Debrief is right after the game, our reaction.
Abby Wombach:
Got it.
Tobin Heath:
Live.
Christen Press:
Live.
Abby Wombach:
Got it.
Tobin Heath:
So it’s really scary for us when it’s live. And then obviously, TRS is our nice, polished shows.
Abby Wombach:
Great. Okay. Okay.
Tobin Heath:
Sit down with an amazing guest, like yourselves, and really get to be a little bit more thoughtful about the things we’re saying.
Abby Wombach:
Okay. Well, on one of the shows, you had mentioned that our Women’s National Team and the way that the cycle works is World Cup, then Olympics, World Cup, then Olympics, right? And the US Women’s National Team has always won one of them.
Christen Press:
That blew my mind.
Abby Wombach:
Isn’t that so wild? But never both, right?
Christen Press:
And never both in the same cycle.
Abby Wombach:
Same cycle.
Tobin Heath:
Never both in the same cycle.
Christen Press:
So yeah, the team has actually won an Olympics, and then in the next cycle, the World Cup. So they kind of were back to back, but not in the same cycle.
Abby Wombach:
So essentially, folks who are listening, what that means is the World Cup is one summer and then the following summer is often the Olympics, minus the COVID summer, which it was two summers later. So we have the ’95 Women’s World Cup, we lost. Then we won the Olympics in ’96. This is a couple years later, won the ’99 World Cup, lost the Olympics. Then we won the World Cup ’03, won the Olympics ’04, then we lost the World Cup ’07, won the Olympics of ’08. We lost the World Cup of ’11.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. So what’s supposed to happen this year?
Tobin Heath:
Wait. You didn’t get to the best part when we made the team.
Glennon Doyle:
And then in 1918 …
Abby Wombach:
And then in 1918 …
Glennon Doyle:
And then in 1919 …
Abby Wombach:
Okay. So all of y’all are assholes. What happened is we didn’t win the World Cup in 2023, and we find ourselves in the Olympics in 2024.
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Abby Wombach:
What do you think is going to happen?
Glennon Doyle:
Statistically, we’re supposed to win then, right?
Tobin Heath:
Statistically.
Abby Wombach:
Statistically, that is true.
Glennon Doyle:
Do you all think that we can win this whole thing?
Christen Press:
Do I think we can? Absolutely.
Tobin Heath:
I don’t think we can.
Christen Press:
Well, you don’t think we can or you don’t think we will?
Tobin Heath:
Oh, I don’t think we will. Of course, the football gods, you never know what they’re up to up there. But the only reason is just time. It’s just time and the depth. It’s the problem in the depth of this team in a tournament like the Olympics.
Glennon Doyle:
I want you to know that our producer has never done this in the history of the show, just texted us, “Fact check: Tobin is wrong.
Abby Wombach:
“Fact check: Tobin is wrong.” Oh, it’s Amanda.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, it was Amanda.
Abby Wombach:
It was Sister. “Tobin is wrong.”
Christen Press:
That’s even better.
Glennon Doyle:
She fact-checked you. She said you are wrong. They are going to win.
Tobin Heath:
In what way?
Abby Wombach:
No, just the win.
Glennon Doyle:
That they are going to win.
Abby Wombach:
It’s not a fact. It’s an opinion check.
Tobin Heath:
Oh, she’s prophetic.
Abby Wombach:
She’s opinion-checking you.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Tobin Heath:
Opinion-checking. You’re right. You’re right. Let’s cut. We’re all just going to … Do I want the team win? Absolutely.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. What would you have done differently? Who do you think could come off the bench?
Tobin Heath:
Nothing. I wouldn’t have done anything different.
Glennon Doyle:
You think you wouldn’t have done anything different? No.
Christen Press:
In the Germany game?
Tobin Heath:
Oh, in the Germany game?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
No, no. I mean, 4-1 Germany, you’d be a fool to try to go back and do it again.
Glennon Doyle:
Right. Right. And can we just talk about sweet Lynn Williams? Oh my God.
Christen Press:
So cool.
Abby Wombach:
Getting on the field, getting her goal.
Glennon Doyle:
And one cool thing is who is that woman that always writes the amazing things about the soccer? Meg …
Abby Wombach:
Oh, Linehan?
Tobin Heath:
Linehan.
Glennon Doyle:
Meg. Yes. She said that she thought that that was a moment that showed such a switch and intensity because just keeping up the intensity for that long, that that goal happened near the end of the game was just such a shining moment of, “Oh my God. They’re just going to be fierce the whole time.”
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. I mean, look, I think that Lynn, she has given her life to this game. She’s been committed to the National Team for a long time. And honestly, based on an injury prior to the Olympics, that’s why she’s there. She replaced an injured player. And then it just speaks to her character to maintaining her readiness and staying ready. And when she’s called upon, she shows up and scores. And she had the leg, the red brace, whatever the heck that thing was.
Christen Press:
Big, old, red sleeve.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. I was like, “Is she okay? Do we need to see a doctor here, Lynn?” But she went out …
Christen Press:
I’m just thinking that’s hot, like, “Oh, that’s hot.”
Abby Wombach:
I know. She went out there and she scores a goal. And for somebody who has kind of struggled to find themselves in the starting lineup and to get the goal in the National Team world … She kills it in the NWSL. She’s, I think, the leading goalscorer of the NWSL, right?
Glennon Doyle:
Really?
Christen Press:
Yes.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. So I don’t know, I just felt really happy for her. She did great. Our front three, I don’t know if our front three can be stopped. Alyssa Naeher coming up with three massive saves, keeping it a game, truly. And you need that. So to me, if the team can show up on that top podium at the end of this tournament, it will be a lot due to Alyssa making big time saves because other teams are so good. It’s impossible not to allow shots. It’s impossible to not. Let’s say we play France or Spain. They’re going to get through. They’re going to have chances. So our goalkeeper has to show up and then our front three also have to show up. What do you guys think about our midfield?
Tobin Heath:
So I think the midfield, the biggest problem was just trust. I think the midfield is completely dependent on balance and trust. And if you try to do too much sometimes, it doesn’t work. There has to be a very … We talk about rigidity. I believe, especially in buildup play, there has to be so much rigidity. Sorry, this is so soccer junkie-ish when I go a little too deep. But basically, what I’m trying to say is I feel like why the whole team, because the midfield really is the engine of the team, why the team is performing is because there’s more trust in the midfield. And I think that came with a lot of work, but to the psychoanalyzing of people and getting the right mixture.
Christen Press:
Well, what someone told me yesterday was when you don’t notice the midfield, it means they’re doing their job.
Abby Wombach:
Oh, interesting.
Christen Press:
And that’s actually what I think it was a little bit like in the Germany game. Overall, I don’t know if our performance was a 4-1 win, just being honest. I felt like the whole time, Germany was going to get a goal and make it a game. And I think we all know how important it is to win by a lot. Or your result to outperform actually how you did on the field, that’s actually a really good sign of mentality and chemistry and also a little bit of luck, which is absolutely required in a moment like this.
Abby Wombach:
That’s smart.
Christen Press:
But I think when it comes to how we go up against the rest of the world, I don’t think we are going to be able to consistently outperform every team. But that does not mean I don’t think we can win.
Tobin Heath:
Same. I don’t think that means we’ll win.
Christen Press:
I think people are going crush you for saying that.
Abby Wombach:
No.
Glennon Doyle:
If people are going to crush Tobin, then I’m cutting it.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, we’re cutting it if necessary. But at the end of the day, I get it. Yeah, they can win. And also, guess what’s happened to my little, fragile heart over the last four years?
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Abby Wombach:
It’s gotten a little bit hard.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, you’ve hardened your heart. And I also had hardened my heart, for different reasons, because I thought that I … See, here’s the thing about the sports. When I was little, my dad was a football coach, okay? So he coached our high school team. And then we were massive fans of the Washington football team. Okay?
Abby Wombach:
Commanders.
Glennon Doyle:
The Commanders now. Right. My whole heart was with them. It was when Joe Theismann and John Riggins and Joe Jacoby, and our family was obsessed. And then this thing called free agency started happening. And you guys, I don’t mean this in a shallow way. I mean, I was betrayed. I was betrayed. I used to sit and talk to my parents at the kitchen table about it. I used to, “What do you mean they just leave and new people come in? What do you mean? Of what are we a fan then?” If I am a big fan of Brandy Carlisle’s Band and I love them, and then I go to the concert and Joe Schmoe is singing now, what am I a fan of? I’m serious. It’s a deep thing for me.
Abby Wombach:
I guess so.
Glennon Doyle:
Van Halen, okay? David Lee Roth. No, you can’t just put Sammy Hagar in. Right?
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
So I think it’s a problem. I don’t understand. Of what we are fans if the people keep changing?
Tobin Heath:
I love that you said this.
Glennon Doyle:
Really?
Tobin Heath:
I really do because you’re just a fan of a logo or a team color. I have that too. I really struggle with that. But that’s why I feel like teams that have this winning mentality, like the US Women’s National Team, that have this identity, I think that’s the thing that breaks the heart. Right, Abby?
Abby Wombach:
Mm-hmm.
Tobin Heath:
When you don’t see whatever version of the US Women’s National Team …
Abby Wombach:
That I follow.
Tobin Heath:
Playing with that same spirit that makes you feel something.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s exactly right.
Tobin Heath:
But I feel betrayed all the time and I don’t understand sports anymore.
Glennon Doyle:
No.
Tobin Heath:
I think contracts should have to be minimum five years.
Christen Press:
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Glennon Doyle:
Absolutely.
Christen Press:
No, no, no, no, no.
Glennon Doyle:
Something like that.
Christen Press:
I don’t usually have a big say here, but free agency is extremely important from a player safety and respect thing. And NWSL, our league, has been fighting for free agency so that we can leave …
Tobin Heath:
This is such a different conversation.
Christen Press:
And live where we want and be respected as full humans.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Christen Press:
And so I just think since we’re on We Can Do Hard Things, it would be appropriate for me to mention …
Tobin Heath:
To advocate for free agency. Yes, you’re right.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Christen Press:
And I think that we are going to achieve it in an amended NWSL contract and it’s huge. For those of us that have been traded behind our backs in our sleep, it is huge.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wombach:
Amazing.
Tobin Heath:
Hardest I’ve ever cried.
Christen Press:
When I got traded?
Tobin Heath:
When you got traded, yeah. Yeah. I forgot you did too.
Glennon Doyle:
I can be a fan of that. If free agency is something that is important to the hearts and bodies and minds of the players, then I can be a fan of that. Okay?
Christen Press:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
But what I’m saying is that yesterday, I opened that game, or whatever you do, I started watching the game with a hardened heart. “I am not getting attached to these ones. I will watch it. I will cheer, but I am not getting attached to these love bugs because I know I’m just going to lose them in a couple years.” And guess what? Nope, I’m totally attached. I am absolutely, emotionally connected to every single one of them. Something about the game yesterday was heart. There was something to connect to. There was something to be a fan of there that was beyond the individual people.
Abby Wombach:
It’s almost like all of us have been holding our breath and we were able to finally take a collective inhale for the first time in a while, and I think that we saw glimmers. Like look, this is a very young team, number one, in actual age. Very young with a very new coach, so there’s so much more to be seen. And they keep saying this in the media, which I love. They’re like, “This is the tip of the iceberg. We have so much more to go. We have so much more to prove,” and I love that. But it’s that thing that I don’t like holding my breath. I like feeling free when I’m watching the game, and I think that it was like, “Oh, here we are again. This is nice again. I like this.” And again, it’s also very new at the same time.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wombach:
It feels old and new at the exact same time.
Tobin Heath:
Because the US Women’s National Team has always been modernizing the women’s game and it feels like we’re not the ones modernizing it anymore.
Abby Wombach:
Yes.
Tobin Heath:
So that’s why it feels a little weird. Because it’s not like the US Women’s National Team was the same team in each cycle. They were very, very different styles. The game modernizes very quickly. But we were always the ones doing that part, so it was almost like seeing the new play for the first time and it being award-winning every time. But now, it’s like the world has changed. Other countries are modernizing the game and we’re trying to figure out where we fit into this new world order. So it is pretty crazy. And a fun fact for Amanda, if you’re listening, this is the first team without a player with a gold medal on it.
Glennon Doyle:
What? Really?
Christen Press:
There she is.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh my god.
Abby Wombach:
Wait. Alyssa Naeher doesn’t have a gold medal?
Glennon Doyle:
Pod Squad, you have to know that Tobin said my sister’s name and she’s just desperate to be on, so she just showed up.
Amanda Doyle:
I was called in, so I was called off the bench.
Tobin Heath:
I was seeing if the genie bottle worked.
Christen Press:
It did.
Glennon Doyle:
It did. Did you have something to say, Sister?
Amanda Doyle:
I was called off the bench and this is my moment. I also have not had a gold medal, so does that mean I could play on the team? I’m just asking for a friend.
Tobin Heath:
We were also on with Alex Cooper yesterday, and I was thinking the whole time because she had referenced that she played college soccer. And the whole time, I was thinking, “You’ve played more college soccer than some of the women on the field.”
Christen Press:
So true.
Abby Wombach:
Oh my gosh, because none of them play college soccer. That’s great.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, because they went straight into …
Abby Wombach:
Yes. Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah. I think [inaudible 00:39:05] played one year.
Amanda Doyle:
Thanks for that fact, Tobin.
Abby Wombach:
Those are good, fun facts.
Tobin Heath:
I’m just here for that.
Amanda Doyle:
She’s coming for my job.
Glennon Doyle:
I need to ask Tobin and Christen about something different.
Abby Wombach:
Okay, here we go.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wombach:
We can do hard things, so we’re just going to get real quick into a hard thing.
Glennon Doyle:
I just need somebody to, real quick, explain to the Pod Squad what Canada has been up to. And then I want to hear …
Amanda Doyle:
Those rascals.
Glennon Doyle:
All of your thoughts about it because Abby and I have very different reactions to this situation.
Tobin Heath:
Oh my gosh.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m so happy we’re talking about this. They’re rascals.
Christen Press:
They’re rascals?
Abby Wombach:
That’s one word for it.
Glennon Doyle:
So real quick, I’m going to describe it, and then you tell me what actually happened.
Abby Wombach:
Tell us about the …
Tobin Heath:
Please describe it.
Abby Wombach:
Canada soccer scandal.
Glennon Doyle:
Recently, one team was practicing for the Olympics.
Abby Wombach:
New Zealand.
Glennon Doyle:
Lo and behold, they’re in a closed practice …
Abby Wombach:
Which means?
Glennon Doyle:
Practicing their little secret things, as people do who are getting ready for a game with their coach and their people.
Abby Wombach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
They look up in the air. They hear a buzz. They look up in the air and there is a what? There is a drone, a drone which is filming their secret moves so that the drone can fly over to the Canadian coaches, who we all thought were nice of the whole Canada thing. Not so much. They are downloading the practices so they can watch what the other team is doing, which is called cheating.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
Very organized, cheating.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
Predetermined, premeditated …
Abby Wombach:
Premeditated.
Glennon Doyle:
Cheating. Then the boss of Canada comes out in a statement …
Abby Wombach:
On Friday.
Glennon Doyle:
And says something like, “We think this has actually been going on for a very long time.” I’m like, “Whoa.”
Amanda Doyle:
That’s different than America. America would be like, “We don’t know what you’re talking about. And also, America would be like, “If you don’t cheat, you’re losers. Everybody cheats.”
Glennon Doyle:
“You pay taxes? Loser.”
Abby Wombach:
Well, here’s what happened. So the New Zealand team looks up, they notice a drone and they call the police. That’s how this happened. And in France, they have no drone flying laws, and so they were able to figure out who this was because the New Zealand people were like, “Hold on a second. We’re going to call the police.”
Glennon Doyle:
So far, the only consequences are that the staff, a bunch of the coaches have to go home, the Canadian team gets docked six points …
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, they’re now … Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
But they’re still in the …
Abby Wombach:
Tournament.
Glennon Doyle:
Tournament. And the New Zealand team who lost to the cheating Canadian team just is like, “Oh, well. We lost.”
Amanda Doyle:
They don’t have anything? Why don’t they give them their six points?
Glennon Doyle:
They should get their six points.
Amanda Doyle:
I feel like that would be fair. They just have those six points, but the other team doesn’t get any of them. What good is that?
Abby Wombach:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
There’s a parable in the Bible about this. And as of today …
Abby Wombach:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
It’s like if someone takes a $100 from me …
Glennon Doyle:
Shuckles, something about talent.
Amanda Doyle:
And is like, “Well, the recompense is you have to give away $100.” It’s like, “Wait, but it was from me.”
Abby Wombach:
Well, and as of today, the Canada Soccer Federation is appealing the six points. More to be revealed there.
Christen Press:
They want it to be more?
Abby Wombach:
No, they want it to be less. But listen, what are your guys’ feelings about this? How are you thinking about it?
Christen Press:
Okay. We also have slightly differing opinions, but it’s very hard because we kind of talked about it similar to doping. Like if you don’t know that you are being slipped, some sort of performance enhancer by your coach or by your trainer, and then you go out and you run faster than everybody, you still didn’t win fairly, even though it’s not your fault.
Tobin Heath:
And even if you obviously trained really hard, you tried really hard, you cared a lot …
Christen Press:
And you could still have won without it. We will never know.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Christen Press:
But you still get disqualified.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Christen Press:
And for me, it doesn’t make sense because New Zealand, as you’ve implied, also had something taken from them, which were their secrets. And we don’t know if Canada did that to the other teams. We don’t know what happened. So for me, it seems like it would’ve made more sense to just have them kind of default out of the tournament and give three points to every team that played them so that the other teams could duke it out fairly and you just removed the cheating. But I will say it’s a really hard thing to say to the players. Even if you’re getting someone slipping you drugs or performance enhancers, it is your responsibility to know that. But in this case, there’s really nothing they could have done.
And then the other thing that Tobin and I both kind of do agree on is the fact that when Canada women’s soccer won gold, they won on penalties in the quarterfinals and the finals. And that is the most advantageous thing of watching someone’s close training is that you can watch their penalties. And in their quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, as Tobin has liked to say, they didn’t score one goal in the run of play. They only won on penalties, which could affect their strategy if they knew they were going to win in penalties, and the goalkeeper gets told exactly which way each shooter shoots. So it is a very suspicious set of circumstances.
Amanda Doyle:
Well, I have a question about that. Does that mean because the prior scenario was … Okay, so it’s theoretically just the coaches are very bad coaches, bad, bad, bad, and the players don’t know. But if they were fed the information as specifically, is there a world in which the players could not know?
Christen Press:
Yes.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah. I don’t think the players …
Amanda Doyle:
Okay.
Christen Press:
So if you are goalkeeper and you’re preparing, you’re going to watch hundreds of penalties of the team and you’re going to study it, and they’re going to give you a water bottle and it’s going to say which way they shoot. And it’s supposed to be based on film that you could see publicly.
Amanda Doyle:
Okay.
Christen Press:
And so you already get so much information that you’re not going to be like, “Oh, how do you know?”
Amanda Doyle:
Right.
Christen Press:
They just know and you would just trust that.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah. And I think it’s really important to remember with penalty kicks … Abby took a lot of her penalty kicks so most of her penalty kicks have been studied. There’s tons of film on it. But with penalty kick shootouts, there will be a lot of players that take penalty kicks that don’t have a lot of film on them. So their coaches will be making educated guesses on what exactly that player will be doing.
Christen Press:
Unless …
Tobin Heath:
Unless …
Christen Press:
There is drone footage of their training.
Tobin Heath:
Which I guess people don’t see this on audio.
Amanda Doyle:
We’re making the fingers.
Abby Wombach:
Air quotes.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah. The quote fingers.
Amanda Doyle:
The quote fingers that are basically like cheater fingers.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s just a big question.
Tobin Heath:
You know what? I think this is really sad because we’re talking about … You referred to the Tokyo Olympics where they won gold, but they also won bronze in the prior two Olympics. And if this is a systematic thing, unfortunately, my heart breaks for these players because I would be livid, if I was a player, that my medal or something … because these players work extremely hard to have these opportunities. And now, not only am I being called a cheater for something I wasn’t even in control of, but now my medals could be on the line for that? I would be livid.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Tobin Heath:
But I think it’s really hard to separate the two things of having an advantage. And I think for other teams, other teams should be livid too. I think about the teams in Tokyo.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Tobin Heath:
If that is true, everyone should be upset in some way, right?
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Tobin Heath:
Because those are other people working really hard to have the opportunity to win a gold medal.
Abby Wombach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
But that’s why the buck stops somewhere. Maybe this is the first time in history that a leader was doing some really shady shit for a lot of times and nobody else knew about it. Of course people knew about it. It is the top’s responsibility to make sure that the coach and the leaders are operating with integrity. And if they’re not and if they cheat, everybody gets penalized.
Tobin Heath:
Yeah, but in sport, Glennon, there’s this weird thing. If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. It’s a very weird thing and there’s a lot of gray area, and sport is always kind of pushing the boundaries of being just too much.
Abby Wombach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
But drones? Don’t you think we’ve gotten into too much?
Tobin Heath:
Did they have a silent drone? You know how on guns you can kind of make it not loud?
Abby Wombach:
A silencer?
Glennon Doyle:
A silencer on your drone?
Christen Press:
No, it was a loud drone. Facts.
Abby Wombach:
So stupid.
Amanda Doyle:
It wasn’t even a clever thing. If you’re going to cheat with drones, at least do it in a country that doesn’t have a no drone law.
Christen Press:
I know.
Abby Wombach:
When does the National Team play next?
Christen Press:
Wednesday?
Abby Wombach:
What time is the game?
Tobin Heath:
10:00.
Christen Press:
10:00 AM PT.
Glennon Doyle:
And then after the game, what are we all going to do?
Abby Wombach:
10:00 AM PT?
Glennon Doyle:
To find out what we think about what just happened?
Tobin Heath:
Debrief.
Glennon Doyle:
We’re going to listen to Tobin. We’re going to The Debrief.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah. Let’s go to The Debrief. Where do we find The Debrief, Tobin and Christen?
Tobin Heath:
In membership. So you have to be a Reimaginer. I mean, you’ll get the clips a few days after, the hot clips. But to have the full reaction …
Amanda Doyle:
You need to be a member.
Tobin Heath:
To be the first ones to know.
Abby Wombach:
Okay.
Glennon Doyle:
And you guys, please. Pod Squad, just please listen to it and then don’t tell your people you listen to it, and then just sit down at dinner and just start dropping shit. This is like my friend who records Jeopardys and then she turns it on with her husband like it’s in real time, and she just answers all the shit and she never tells him, but she already memorized the whole thing. This is what you’re going to do.
Tobin Heath:
Genius.
Christen Press:
That’s so good.
Amanda Doyle:
My problem is I wouldn’t be able to remember it.
Abby Wombach:
I wouldn’t be able to remember it either.
Glennon Doyle:
No, I need to say one more thing.
Abby Wombach:
Okay.
Glennon Doyle:
I need to just note the genius of Christen and Tobin because what I want to say about the values-led brand, that I have been thinking about this whole time, is that you are even looking at the game and analyzing it and picking your players of the match, and looking at everything through the values of your brand, like choosing the player based on the selfless runs. It’s such a gorgeous 360 approach to the whole thing, and I see it and I love it.
Christen Press:
Aww, thank you.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s all I wanted to say.
Christen Press:
So sweet.
Abby Wombach:
I want to end with this. Christen and Tobin, before we got on this, Amanda and Glennon were like, “Okay, can you give us a little thing to end on? Something like, ‘Go.'” And they were both trying to tell me to give the speech, and Christen and Tobin both know how terrible I was in the huddle prior to games. I would fumble, I would stutter, and then we all knew we were going to have a good game.
Amanda Doyle:
Aww.
Abby Wombach:
But what I want to take our Pod Squad through is can we do an USA cheer with the Pod Squad and with Glennon and with Sister so that they know what it is?
Glennon Doyle:
Okay, but what is it?
Abby Wombach:
So before every game, the US National Team says, “USA, USA, USA, ah.”
Amanda Doyle:
Oh.
Abby Wombach:
You say USA on three. One, two, three.
Glennon Doyle:
Sister.
Group:
USA, USA, USA, ah.
Abby Wombach:
That was a 3/10. I gave you a 3/10.
Amanda Doyle:
Try again, Doyle.
Abby Wombach:
The excitement and energy, love it.
Glennon Doyle:
This is the most patriotic I’ve ever been in public and I’m kind of nervous about it.
Christen Press:
I’ll just be over here.
Abby Wombach:
Christen won’t even be on screen.
Christen Press:
I was definitely kind of in the exterior of this huddle because I just don’t really like all the people.
Glennon Doyle:
I think we should leave it at this, you guys. This is great.
Abby Wombach:
Yeah, we’re going to leave it at this USA, USA, USA on three. One, two, three.
Group:
USA, USA, USA, ah.
Abby Wombach:
Thanks for coming, you guys. We love you so much.
Glennon Doyle:
We love you.
Abby Wombach:
Thanks, Pod Squad.
Christen Press:
Thank you.
Tobin Heath:
Love you.
Glennon Doyle:
Bye.
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you’d be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you’ll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you’ll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audacy, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on “Follow.” This is the most important thing for the pod. While you’re there, if you’d be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Audacy. Our executive producer is Jenna Weiss-Berman, and this show is produced by Lauren LoGrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz. I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile.