California Love, Sex Fantasies & How to Know What to Do (in Bed)
September 16, 2021
Glennon Doyle:
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Here we are, together again. I have to just start by telling you all that all of us, Abby, Amanda, me, Allison, and Dynna, we actually spent a lot of time listening to your voice mails, over the last week. I truly don’t know what to say to you. I love you so much. I have not felt this connected to a community since the beginning, when I started blogging. I just love this community that is listening, so much, and your thoughts and your ideas, and your responses, and your stories are so deep and beautiful. And so many of you called in after we had the talk about, maybe we would lighten up, and begged us not to lighten up, said you wanted to keep talking about the hard things.
Amanda Doyle:
You’ve come to the right place.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I don’t think that there’s any other choice. That’s what we’re going to do here.
Abby Wambach:
Well, if you noticed that the easy things that we have said and claimed we were going to talk about ended up being hard things.
GD:
That’s right. We can’t do easy.
AW:
We can’t not really do-
AD:
But we can make easy things hard.
GD:
That’s right, and we will continue-
AW:
Yes.
GD:
… We can promise that. We can promise that. I just want to tell you that I am freshly reminded every time I listen to or read your stories, or tell my own, frankly, about how tough life is, about how freaking hard relationships, being a citizen of this world, right now, just existing inside of our own skin, day in and day out, how hard it is, and I don’t really know how to make it easier. I just know that the only thing that’s ever worked for me is to keep telling the truth about that. You know?
AD:
Mm-hmm.
GD:
So I don’t… All I can promise you is that we will keep showing up. We’re going to keep showing up here.
AD:
Good.
GD:
That’s our promise to you. You will have a place to come and listen to all of the messy gloriousness of life, and we’ll do it together. That’s all we’ve got, but I think that might be all we need. Right?
AD:
Amen.
AW:
That’s good.
AD:
So, y’all, you are now California folks. How is it going out there?
GD:
Yes.
AD:
You’ve had, what, almost three weeks now, four weeks now, something like that?
GD:
No, seven weeks.
AW:
Seven.
AD:
Oh, my God.
GD:
I think we’ve been here for seven weeks. I have so many thoughts that you will be shocked. You’ll be shocked that I’ve thought this through, and I have things to share about… I mean, I have to tell you this. When we first came to visit here, when we were really considering a move, so we’re standing in the street of this cute little neighborhood in California, trying to figure out where we’re going to live. Okay, so Abby and I are standing, and we’re waiting for the real estate agent. We’re just standing there.
This woman bounces out of her house. Okay? And she looks like something urgent is happening. So Abby and I’s attention go immediately to her. She walks out into the middle of the street, stays six feet apart from us. Okay? Because California is nothing, if not extremely responsible about things such as this. Okay? She said, “Are you Glennon?” And I said, “Yes, I am Glennon.” And she said, “Okay. I have to tell you that I am sitting right there,” and she points to her porch, “Finishing your book, Untamed, right now. Like, I literally finished the last page of your book, looked up, and saw you standing in the middle of the street.” And I said, “Oh, I know. That’s why I’m here. I come to everybody’s house when they’re done with the book”-
AW:
Yeah, she really said this. This actually came out of her mouth.
GD:
… so that we can just talk about your feelings, like if you have any feelings after the book, or you need to talk. I just make sure that I show up.” And she just stared at me for a good minute, like she was actually contemplating this possibility, and then she, kind of, smirked. But that was my, kind of, welcome to California and here’s the deal. I feel like I wrote Untamed, and I was like, “Okay, this is who I am. I know who I am now, and I’m an introvert, and I am a little cranky, and I am need all these boundaries, and I am going to just make my boundaries and live this way.” Right? Then I realized I was getting, kind of, too boundary. I think we talked about this in the boundary episode. I felt myself feeling… It was like the more boundaries I made for myself, the more anxious I was getting, not less. Okay?
So, I just felt like I see some older people, and I felt like, “I just want to fight the urge to make my life a bunker,” if that makes sense. Living where we were living felt a little bit like building a bunker, and I needed to fight this self that I have that, given its druthers, would just never leave the house, would not know anyone, would not put myself out there, would not… So we moved to this place where… I mean, you all, we live… Our houses are right next to other houses. We have no yard. We are basically in what, to me, might as well be New York City. Okay? There are people everywhere. Abby was scared. Were you scared that I might lose my mind more?
AW:
Yeah, I mean, your anxiety… We were talking about this the other day. You give me some of that because I know how you are in social situations. So I get anxiety about you getting anxiety.
GD:
Yes. Anxiety can be contagious.
AW:
Yes, I got it.
GD:
Yeah, yeah.
AW:
I was worried, for sure.
GD:
Yeah. So I, sister, I just feel this amazing awe and joy because I love it.
AD:
Yayyy.
GD:
I am surrounded by people all the time. I hear the buzzing of the cars and the people walking by constantly. I walk outside of my house, and I don’t have a yard, and it makes me feel like, “Oh, I see we’re sharing this space. We are all sharing.” It’s like… I don’t know how to explain it, other than when you have… It’s almost like the idea of suburbia compared to city. It’s like when you think that you have land ownership, you think that’s going to give you more peace, and then it actually gives you less because you have something. Then you have to defend what you have, and it’s yours. Then, it’s like more fences, more gates, more whatever, and you think that’s going to make you feel less scared. But all I can tell you is, to me, where we were living before, it was like stand your ground area. It’s the like-
AD:
Literally.
AW:
Literally. Yes. That’s what I was just going to say.
GD:
That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. It was stand your ground. So it’s that, taken to the extreme, like more fences, more boundaries, more walls, more weapons, more whatever will make us safer from each other, and it made me… I didn’t like it. I was starting to feel that, and I just… Do you know what I mean? And now we’re here, and everything’s communal. It’s like we’re sharing. There’s no control. You don’t try to have control because there’s clearly no chance. It’s like if I can’t control it, I don’t try, and it feels… I don’t know, and I just… You know, I’m 45.
I thought that I knew who I was. So it’s so cool to have this experience of… It feels like, well we make our environments based on who we are. But, actually, also, our environments help define who we are. Right? Like I have changed my environment and it feels like it’s changing who I am. Then we’ve been having things with friends. We’ve been trying social engagements.
AD:
Yeah. How has that been going?
GD:
Well, I discovered this unbelievable situation, which is that you can start what you want for your social life from scratch. Like, we got this invitation to this get-together, and it said, “Come over. We’re having a little party, and it’s from five to eight.”
AD:
Ah, amen.
GD:
Sister, I was like, “Wait a minute. What? Like you can tell people when to leave?” This has changed everything we’ve done since then. We put an end time. Like, “You can come. Can you come at four, and can you leave by seven?” Like, “I’m going to come. We’ll come. We’re going to be there at six, and we’re going to leave at 8:30.” And it might be a little weird at the beginning, and it’s only weird because people don’t do that, normally. But most of the social engagement I spend feeling anxious that no one’s going to leave.
AD:
Yeah.
GD:
Or, if I’m there, when do I get to leave? My entire life is really about getting back to the couch. My entire day, my entire life is really aimed towards, when can I be back, done with what I need to do, and be on my couch? Really not even watching a show, just flipping through, trying to find a show, something. I don’t know.
AW:
And if you’re out with a friend, or at a party or something, then you’re also navigating, trying to be polite and not wanting to leave too early, or not wanting to stay too long. These are things that people are going through internally. I know it because I don’t really ever think about this stuff. I’m like, “I don’t want to be here anymore. Do you want to go?” But you’re always thinking about their feelings-
GD:
Not hurting anyone’s feelings. Yeah.
AW:
… and your feelings, and the kids’ feelings, and all that. You’re much better at that than I am, or also maybe a little worse.
GD:
Yeah.
AW:
I don’t if it’s better or worse.
GD:
Yeah, exactly. It has its challenges. But my point about this is that we can… You know what we come back to all the time, this idea in my life is that we let must the structure liberates.
AW:
Amen.
GD:
Having a structure for social things has liberated me to feel… to enjoy it. Right?
AD:
That’s so great.
GD:
I just am putting out permission to add an end time to your social invites. Also, sister, we don’t like night time. We’re non-drinkers. We’re early bedtime people, and I don’t like this thing where all social engagements have to be at night.
Yesterday morning, we had an unbelievable double date with these new two women, and they came at 8:00 a.m. They came to our house at 8:00 a.m. and just hung out for a few hours. Then, why not? Why not coffee? I’m not good at night.
AD:
It’s an arbitrary time. This goes… I know we’re talking more about sexuality, too, today, and I feel like that goes with the arbitrary assignment of night time to make out. That was as silly way to start things.
GD:
Oh.
AD:
It doesn’t work. It’s not my best moment is at the night time. So why not other times, as better times than that? So-
GD:
Yes.
AD:
… that I think I’m in support of that. I like that.
GD:
Okay. That’s a good segue, sister, because what I’m saying is just like we talked about with sexuality, is we can ask ourselves who we are socially.
AD:
Mm-hmm. Yes.
GD:
What kind of social being am I? Am I not a social being, or do I just not like night-time parties?
AD:
Yes.
GD:
Because, actually I loved our date yesterday, Abby. Did you?
AW:
I loved it.
GD:
The morning?
AW:
You know, what we talk about all the time is nothing good ever happens after 10:00 p.m.
GD:
Or eight.
AW:
Sleep is what happens after 10:00 p.m. That’s good.
AD:
That was like what you texted last night for bed, and we’re three hours later than you. So it was 10:00 my time, and you texted a selfie from your bed, and I was like, “I’m sorry. Isn’t it 7:00 p.m. where you are?”
AW:
When the kids are at Craig’s, we’re in bed at seven.
AD:
And you said, “Oh, yes it is, but don’t worry. We’re going to bed right now. Don’t worry.” I was like, “I’ve never heard of such a people. They’re literally in bed at 7:00, the hour of our lord, going to bed.”
GD:
Yeah. What to tell you.
AW:
Because Glennon’s up at 4:00 a.m., making this content, thinking about books and how to save the world, or set the world on fire, one of those.
GD:
Well, I’m not following other people’s structures, not for sex, not for social things, not even other people’s, what do you call it, circadian rhythm.
AD:
Not even the sun. Not even the sun. She doesn’t respect the sun.
GD:
“Stop trying to boss me, sun.”
AD:
Oh, all of you just keep on going along with dawn to dusk. Not Glennon.
GD:
That’s right. That’s right. Look, I resent the sun, and all of its insistence on trying to control my life.
AW:
With it, comes an immense amount of privilege. Right? We don’t have little kids. Right?
AD:
Any more. Right.
AW:
Sister, you’re consumed with small children in your life, and the rhythm of your life is so different. So we’re, kind of, in a beautiful phase where our kids are older enough, and they sleep until 12:00.
AD:
God, that’s good.
GD:
Yeah, that’s a dream. Babe, I want to hear all about you and… Can you just give us a quick update on how you’re feeling about California? I know I talk too long. Sorry, I just felt real excited about all these new selves I’m uncovering.
AW:
About me?
GD:
Yeah like, how are you feeling about California?
AW:
I’m loving California, and the whole thing that I feel is just relieved that you trusted me and that you actually love it. The fact really remains is that I am now experiencing California in a completely different way than I did before. I was more of a night owl, not sober. So I didn’t experience the daytime quite like I’m experiencing it now.
AD:
At all.
GD:
Or clarity, or health.
AW:
Exactly.
GD:
Vision.
AW:
Clarity or… So our family has become a surfing family, which I also didn’t anticipate. It’s just so cool. There is some miracle that happens when you’re able to do a similar athletic/risky/spiritual thing with your kids at the exact same time, and then they try to take a wave, and all you know is that when they go down under the water and they come up, their body’s already turned to look at you, and they want to make sure that you’ve seen them do that thing that they learned how to do in the last month.
It is a fucking miracle, every single time, to me, and I actually… I choose not to catch that next wave, like it’s a good wave. I’m like, “Oh, I could get that,” because I am dying to see Chase and Amma and Tish come out of the water and light up and just have that like, “Did you see that?” You know? For me, that’s been just like worth every ounce of energy it took us to get here, and earned penny. It’s been awesome.
GD:
So beautiful, and if you all, listening, if you could just see Craig Melton on his Longbard, out there-
AD:
Oh my God.
GD:
… in the California… I mean, Craig is living his best life. We’re all so here for it. He’s just… I don’t know. He just seems… Does he just seem like, even sun shinier?
AW:
Yeah.
GD:
Like he just feels… He seems more alive than-
AW:
All of us are-
GD:
… you know-
AW:
All of us are. Every single one of us are more alive. We’re all walking around. We’re moving our bodies differently. We’re experiencing the world. There’s just something about this place that, I think, has brought all of us back to life, in a way that… I don’t even think we knew that we weren’t alive.
GD:
Yeah.
AW:
I think, in Florida, I was like, “Wow, I’m living my best life,” and now, I’m in California, and I’m like, “Wow, I really wasn’t.”
GD:
Isn’t it interesting?
AD:
Yeah, and I… Things like, change. It’s like it’s change. It doesn’t have to be insert California, here, but it could be whatever it is. It’s just like trying on something new of your life and seeing what takes. Is it?
GD:
Mm-hmm.
AD:
Very cool.
GD:
And I think that I would bet that it’s not even… It doesn’t have everything to do with where we are. It’s the presence that… It’s why some people love to travel, or when you’re in the same, same, same, same, it doesn’t require all of you to make it through the day. But when you’re traveling, or you’re in a new place, or you’re trying a new experience, it takes all of your presence. You have to be there to navigate. Right? So that aliveness is… That’s been a liveness that can be cultivated by trying anything new.
AD:
Yes, and you’re expecting new things. Even when you’re in old static environment, there’s new stuff happening all around you, but you’re not expecting it to be new. So you’re not noticing any of it. You know?
GD:
Yeah.
AD:
It’s like when you’re in a place where you’re expecting to be full of wonder and experiencing new things, you will. Yeah.
GD:
Okay, speaking of wonder and experiencing new things, let’s answer some sexuality questions.
AD:
Let’s do it.
GD:
From our amazing episode on Tuesday, I loved it so much. Who are we hearing from first?
AD:
We are hearing from Sasha.
Sasha:
Hi. My name is Sasha. I have a question about, I guess, truth. It’s kind of a big one. I’m a queer woman. I’ve dated mostly men. I’m in a really strong partnership now with a man, and I appreciate that and I’m also scared that if I don’t… I know it’s dumb. If I don’t use this queer side of me, or if I’m in a relationship that doesn’t look like this queer side of me, then I’m not being true to myself, and that will come back to get me, later. So I’d love to know what you think about that. Thanks for taking this call.
GD:
Mmmm.
AD:
Mmmm. That’s fascinating.
GD:
We hear versions of this question a lot. Don’t we, Babe?
AW:
Mm-hmm.
GD:
About people who either are bisexual or queer or pansexual choose a partner, and then worry that a part of themselves will forever be unexpressed, unexplored. Some people don’t feel that way at all. Some people choose a partner and feel like their entire sexuality can be funneled and channeled with that person. What do you all think? First of all, I love that Sasha’s so honest with herself, and I don’t know. I think she sounds lovely. I like her. What do you all think?
AW:
I think that it would be interesting to poll the pod squaders, in terms of their age and the generations, if you are, in fact, queer, generationally I think that the mindset around this is very different. So I’m like a bit older, gay crowd, kind of grew up feeling really a lot for the bisexual queer community, because I grew up in a time where you had to choose, and that trans and bisexual people actually got the worst of the wrath, in many ways, even from the folks who claim themselves to be gay or lesbian, because we felt like, “Well, if you are it, then just be on our side.” Right? Or like, “You just can’t decide.”
AD:
Choose a side. Choose a side.
AW:
Choose… Pick one. You know?
AD:
You’re either with us or against us.
AW:
Yeah, but I think that’s really, not only naïve, but it’s short-sighted and narrowing to the full experience that people, A, want to have and, B, feel that they are having. I’ve got a lot of trauma around this because I, historically, only dated bisexual women that ended up always leaving me for men. Right? So, there’s also that part of me that I have to be super up-front and honest about. And, quite frankly, we had dinner last night with a person who was like, “Sexuality is more fluid. Our generation is just like, ‘You are what you are every night of the week.’ Like whatever you choose… And if you are in a committed, wonderful partnership, that doesn’t mean that, that’s going to be forever or it does, if that what you choose.” Right?
I think that we’re in a time where you get to make your choice day-in and day-out, for what feels right. I also know that generationally, all of us have opinions based on our own experience and what we grew up with.
GD:
I just think queerness means a whole lot more than just like, “I’m into the other gender, too.” I don’t know how to explain it.
AW:
Yes.
GD:
I just feel like queerness is a whole way, and it’s a whole way of being in the world. It’s why people really… The love is love thing bothers people so much because it’s not all about relationship. It’s about identity.
AD:
Yeah.
GD:
It’s about who we are in the world, how we think, how we move, how we fit in and don’t, who we hang out with, how we see everything. So you get to claim that. That’s part of your identity. It doesn’t have to all be relational.
AW:
Mm-hmm.
GD:
But you never have to abandon that, regardless of who you choose to partner with. I think one of the things to commit to, inside of a relationship, is just… I don’t know why I want to say this, Sasha, but just talk about it. Right? I think that intimacy with a partner comes also with just like making your insides known. So not feeling afraid to share some of this fear and confusion, and whatever, with your partner because you just never know what magic will come, ways that your relationship can get queered, is what I want to say. If it doesn’t even have to do with other partners. I don’t know. I just think that expressing that identity in all the ways that it means to Sasha is just something that she should never abandon, and never think that she has to, based on who she chooses to partner with.
AW:
And know the receiving end. Right? Your partner might feel fear around that. I feel that, because of the trauma that I’ve had in my relationships, around queerness. Of course, it’s based on my insecurity of hearing it, but being thoughtful that it could be hard for your partner to hear like, “I have these other parts of me that I might want to explore.” I don’t know.
GD:
Yep. Yep. Yep, yep. Yep.
AD:
All right. So, we’ve had… This is a question that we’ve received some form of this several times, in some iteration of this. Okay. This is one particular. “Thank you for telling us, in your sex episode, about the first time you and Abby slept together. But I have to know, Glennon, how did you know what to do?”
I had to pick this one. We did get it a lot, because it reminded me of… I have said this to people before because one of my closest best friends from college, she came out to me the year after college, or something like that. And it was one of the… She’d just got her first girlfriend. We were talking, and it was one of the first things I said to her. Like I honestly was baffled. I said, “How did you know what to do?” And she looked at me, and she said, “How did you know what to do?” And it never had occurred to me how I knew what to do, and I realized that after… That question is so packed because it suggests that one way is natural and is known, and you’re born knowing it, and then the other way is somehow unnatural, and abnormal, and you have to like… “It’s a product of science,” or something, but the other one is just like a product of how we’re made.
AW:
Yep.
AD:
Then I just realized that the truth is that, for any kind of sex, if we all either found out what to do because somebody told us, or because something showed us, or because we just fumbled through it enough to figure it out.
GD:
Yeah, I think that’s how all of us figure out sex.
AD:
That’s the whole thing.
GD:
And two things about that. It’s so funny when we think, “Well yeah, I mean, heterosexual sex is just natural. Right? So we just know what to do.” But actually, when you think about it, that doesn’t actually make logical sense you know. I’m like, I have a vagina. I have boobs. Wouldn’t it make more sense that I would know what to do there than opposite? I literally don’t even have a penis. Why is it more natural that I would just know what the hell to do with a penis? Logically, it makes sense that I would know how to make a vagina feel good. Right? It’s all I’m saying. If you take away the conditioning-
AD:
Right.
GD:
… of heteronormative, it actually makes more logical sense. It’s like when you feel music that makes you want to move. It’s like, “Well, how do you know what to do?” It’s just like there’s this… Unless there’s choreographed dance. Right?
AW:
Mm-hmm.
GD:
So you have to watch someone and be trained. Okay. So the sex equivalent of that would be like the kind of sex we try to recreate when it’s choreographed by porn culture, by movies. We have watched enough things to know, “Okay, I’m supposed to arch my back like this. I’m supposed to move like this. This is what a woman does. This is what a man does. This is how I moan. This is how I say it.” That’s choreographed by our culture. Right?
But there’s also a different way to approach sex, which is what I think what we’re trying to do. I’m constantly trying to detox, untame myself from that, from choreographed everything. Right? And just be like, “Well, what does my body want to do? What noise am I naturally making, here?” Obviously, we know, Silent Sex Queen, I haven’t nailed that yet, but what… Or maybe my natural self is silent. Okay?
But what I’m saying is the goal for me is to not know what to do, to just allow complete surrender. I think that is what ideal sex would be to me, just not tapping into anything that’s been conditioned. That’s all just like hearing the music and letting my body do whatever the hell it wants to do.
Also, you guys, I just answered that question with so much deep spiritual wisdom. But then I just remembered something, and I feel like I have to say it because yeah, I always want to be as truthy truth as possible. So all of this like, “I just want my body to move with the music,” I just had flashes of myself, when Abby and I were preparing to meet each other in LA, and I remember reading this book on a plane about what to do.”
AD:
Yes. That’s what I mean. That’s how of us figured it out. I feel like it’s honest. It’s not like…
GD:
Yeah.
AD:
Because you know, honestly, what my body wants to do. My body wants to go to sleep or eat a cookie. I don’t know what my body knows what it wants to do.
GD:
Okay, right. So thank you. I just needed to actually… I do remember being on a plane and reading some orange book that was like it had some information, helpful information about like oral sex and I also remember putting it inside of a different book, because…
AW:
You could also just say sex, by the way. You don’t have to say oral. It’s like… I think the-
GD:
Well, I just remember it was about that detail.
AW:
I know.
GD:
That I was really-
AW:
No, I know.
GD:
I was focused on that, in the moment.
AW:
Right.
GD:
I just really wanted to be good at that.
AW:
I know, but I just don’t want to get… I think that in gay culture, we get…
GD:
Ah, yeah. Sorry.
AW:
Yeah. So I just want to be clear that sex is sex. Right? Hetero normative sex. Then it becomes whatever.
GD:
Right. Thank you, Babe. Thanks. That was good. Okay. All right, our last question is a write-in, and it’s been making me sweaty. So I wanted to avoid it. So I’m doing it. Okay. What are the elements of sexuality you still want to explore?
Okay, so I’m going to talk about this thing that I am completely still baffled, and just desperately sweaty about, that, even with my own wife, she sometimes asks me to talk about, and I don’t know. Every time she asks me to talk about it, I want to like, pull a fire alarm or fake a heart attack. I just want to do anything other than talk about the thing that she has brought up, which is this whole world of fantasy.
When you say, “What is your sexual fantasy?” I am so confused about sexual fantasy, and here’s what I’m going to say, because I’m reminding myself right now, Glennon, that you are in a basement bathroom, but there are so many people listening to you, right now. I don’t understand how we can have these sexual fantasies that are so anathema, that are so opposite to who we are as human beings. Does this make sense to you?
AD:
Yeah.
GD:
I’m just talking about a friend right now. Okay? I’m not even talking about myself. Okay?
AW:
Mm-hmm.
GD:
But, just – Oh God. Oh God.
AD:
This is normal, by the way.
GD:
I don’t know how to talk about this.
AW:
I think what you’re saying is really interesting, because you have sexual fantasies. Your problem is to say some of the sexual fantasies you have, out loud, to me.
GD:
Yes, that’s what I’m saying-
AD:
Because they feel – Because they feel so contrary to what… Like, if someone else said them, you’d be like, “You’re a horrible fucking person.”
AW:
Yes, right.
GD:
Yeah, you’re a bad person, or you’re not a feminist-
AD:
Yeah.
GD:
… or you’re not in love with your partner, or you’re not-
AD:
Right.
GD:
They are things, and also the part of fantasy that I don’t trust, or like, or that makes me feel like I have to keep everything like they’re shameful or something, is that it feels to me like most things we dream of, or we say, “I dream of this,” or, “I fantasize about this,” it’s something that you would want to happen in real life.
AW:
Is it true, though, that you would want some of these things to actually happen?
GD:
No.
AW:
But we’ve already talked about that. So that’s why-
GD:
I know, but-
AW:
… I get that.
GD:
… I’m scared. I’m scared. It’s like a gateway drug to-
AW:
Okay.
GD:
… real-life sex. It’s like it feels, to me like, even if I said, “Okay, this is a sexual fantasy that I have, but I don’t want it to happen in real life,” is that believable? Is that-
AW:
Yes.
GD:
… Is everyone going to trust that?
AW:
Yes. Everybody trusts that.
AD:
How many people do you need to trust that?
AW:
In fact, it’s just me. It’s just me.
GD:
Myself and Abby.
AW:
It’s just me.
AD:
Okay, so that’s pretty… I don’t know if Charles, across the street is going to trust it, but I don’t think you care about that.
GD:
Okay, so my general question about fantasies, which, by the way, I need someone to answer them before I am willing to move on in this conversation. Yes, anyway.
AD:
First of all, it’s very normal, from I’ve read, to have sexual fantasies that are very… almost even upsetting to you, that are contrary to your belief system, that are not… There’s also-
GD:
In line.
AD:
Right.
GD:
Right.
GD:
They’re not. They’re not in line.
AD:
Yeah.
GD:
And I am a person who has spent her whole life trying to get integrated. Okay? Who has been trying to… But, Babe, I’m trying to explain why this is tricky for me. I’m not just being difficult. I’m saying, if the person asks, “What are you interested in exploring?”, this whole idea of sexual fantasy is very interesting to me because it’s out of integrity-
AW:
Yeah…
GD:
… meaning-
AW:
I get it, Baby. I just think that like, in the end, part of this process is to keep learning and trusting yourself, that you are good, and that you are allowed to have these fantasies, no matter what the fuck they are, and that, maybe you’ll never want to share them with me, but that your fantasies are personal to you, and that’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful thing, and, look, we’ll take it slow. You don’t have to tell me right now. Maybe on our five-wedding anniversary. Who knows?
GD:
Mm-hmm. Maybe. We’ll see.
AD:
Well, I have a question. If none of your fantasies are to be acted upon, and you don’t want to see any of them in real life, then, what good is a fantasy? I don’t understand the purpose of a fantasy.
GD:
Exactly. Well, I think that’s what I would like to know. Okay. That is what I would like to know.
AD:
Okay.
GD:
What is the purpose of a fantasy? Although, I do think there might be a raised level of intimacy between two people, but just by sharing them.
AD:
Mmmm.
AW:
Yes. Yeah.
GD:
Is that the point?
AW:
Yes, a better sexual experience, knowing that, maybe this is now going to connect us. Maybe we’re both thinking about the same situation, that is not actually happening, but could be happening, or that we’re creating this fictional scenario that could pique a little bit of this interest for you. There’s so many different ways to approach it. But, in the end, this is still your fantasy. Right? And what is it worth? I don’t know. I mean, Glennon, you live a very internal life. You live very much in your head. You live very much inside. So, to me, I want to experience every part. If you’re willing, I want to experience every part of your internal world, and your mind, and the fantasies that you think of, even if it’s fleeting. I want to know everything if you’re willing to share it.
GD:
Hmm. That’s nice.
AD:
I’m still… I mean… What is fantasy? What is the purpose? I don’t get it. I understand that people are like, “I have a fantasy to do X.” Then, maybe yeah, I can understand that, then maybe you want to be brave enough to be like, “Want to do x?” But if it’s just this obscure thing that you’re imagining…
AW:
But don’t you think that a sexual experience is part energy? It’s not just the physical?
GD:
It’s imagining.
AW:
… it’s-
GD:
Yeah.
AW:
… natural, and it’s imaging? So when two people are in a sexual experience together, even if they’re not doing anything that’s about this fantasy, they’re just both imagining it, that can be completely enchanting, and just arousing. Right? And, Sister, I think this could be interesting for you in the wanting to explore more of your hetero sexuality or just your sexuality, in general, is to think more deeply about some of these fantasies that you may or may not have. I’m not trying to force them on you. But that, even if it’s not something to actually be acted upon, in real life, but it’s something that you’re envisioning or imagining, during the act of sex, that’s also an experience.
GD:
Wowza, you guys. This is a hard thing. Okay, you all. We could not choose one pod squader of the week because we fell deeply, deeply in love with two pod squaders of the week. We think you will, too. Let’s hear from our first pod squader of the week.
AD:
Jan.
GD:
Bring it, Jan.
Jan:
My name is Jan, and I just have a comment regarding orgasm. I really think that we just complicate it so much. We’re just in our heads, and we worry about our bodies and how we look and all these things and, at the end of the day, it really comes down to self-confidence and trusting your partner. And that’s it. It’s really simple. Just let go, just relax. I, like everybody else, had terrible sex up ’til my 40th birthday.
I married my second husband. He came in my life with all of this confidence and a bag of tricks, tricks I never knew existed. Then I just followed him. I was like, “You know what? If he’s telling me what he likes, I’m going to tell him what I like, too.” And I became a goddamned cheetah, and I am moaning and enjoying it, and he makes sure I get an orgasm before he has an orgasm, and we used whatever we need to use, and I have fun first. Then I take good care of him, and we have a blast, and we have been doing this for 10 years. I’m going to be 50 years old, and I am having the best sex of my life. We just need to relax-
AW:
Yeah.
Jan:
… and be confident and just enjoy it. We’re all beautiful. Love you all. Bye.
GD:
Jan.
AD:
You know what Jan did.
GD:
What did Jan do?
AD:
Jan then walked right on over to the other side. She made it into the exhibition.
GD:
Yes, she did.
AD:
And my favorite part of that whole thing… Well, two parts. But a favorite part was, “Like everybody else, I had terrible sex until I was 40.”
GD:
I got that, too.
AD:
Like, I just… It was so liberating.
GD:
Yep, that’s great.
AD:
And she’s 50.
GD:
I liked the bag of tricks part. All right? We apparently need to find partners who actually care about our orgasm, and will do, as she said, whatever it takes, even if what it takes is a bag of tricks. Right?
AW:
And her sentiment. I love her sentiment. I think that one thing I would just add. She said, to have self-confidence and trust in your partner. I think that what has to happen first… Sometimes, we do have self-confidence issues, but we have to trust ourselves. We have to really trust ourselves, and I think sometimes it helps when a partner can help you trust yourself, but what I heard through this is that she finally just started to settle into her own self and let somebody help her get there. But, this is all on you, Jan.
GD:
Yes, Jan.
AW:
You did this for you. You did this for you.
GD:
And did you hear her say she got… She said, what she wanted to. She said what she wanted. Jan, Jan. Jan is a verbal sex queen, which is even better than a silent sex queen. Okay. Let’s hear from our second pod squatter of the week.
AD:
Mattie.
Mattie:
My name is Mattie. I’m a massive fan, listen to you guys obsessively. I just wanted to say that I was listening to your podcast about the sexy questions, farewell to faking it, and my check engine light came on. So while I was listening to you in the car, I ran to Auto Zone and actually had someone check my check engine light, and forgot about it, and when he got into my car and turned on my car to check it, the first thing he heard instantly was, “No. I’ve been faking orgasms my entire life.” He, kind of, turned and looked, and looked at me, and looked back like, “Am I supposed to be listening to this?”
Then, I started fumbling my phone. I got my phone on the ground. I was trying to pause it, and it just kept going, and it was amazing. But it’s hilarious to watch a grown man sit there with the most awkward face you’ve ever seen in your life, not knowing what to do because the conversation was just so honest. I could tell he’s never had a honest conversation like that before. But I just wanted to pass that along. I love you guys. You guys are wonderful. Thank you for all that you do.
GD:
You all, the no more faking orgasms revolution has hit Auto Zone.
AW:
Yeah.
GD:
Mm-hmm. If we can make it there, y’all, we can make it anywhere.
AW:
Yeah.
GD:
I would love to have any footage of when that man went home that night, and the conversation that ensued about-
AD:
Giving a body shop whole new meaning, people.
GD:
All right, Mattie. We love you. Thank you for that story, and everyone listening, we love you.