Priyanka Chopra Jonas: How to Care Less About What People Think
May 2, 2023
Glennon Doyle:
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we have one of the wisest love bugs on the planet, Priyanka Chopra Jonas is a multifaceted talent, New York Times bestselling author of Unfinished and one of the most recognized people in the world. She’s an actor and producer with more than 60 international and Hollywood films to her credit-
Abby Wambach:
60.
Glennon Doyle:
60. She stars in the new Amazon series Citadel and the new movie Love Again, the Padma Shri, one of India’s highest civilian honors, was conferred on her in 2016. And she was named one of the most influential people in the world by Time magazine. A real slacker, this one. She is a global UNICEF Goodwill ambassador and a Global Citizen ambassador and is involved in efforts to protect children’s rights and to promote the education of girls around the world. Are you tired, Priyanka?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Gosh. It’s always so strange when you have to kind of sit through an intro.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Oh, my toes are curling and my hair is standing and it’s like, oh. Why is that so cringey feeling?
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, it’s awful.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
We should be proud of it.
Abby Wambach:
I know.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
It’s like if I actually had turned my logical brain on, every time we hear of our achievements, you should feel like, “Yeah man, I did that. Wow. Good on me I could achieve that.” We’re just so trained to just be, “Ooh.”
Abby Wambach:
I know.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That’s something to unpack and we should at some point.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Because I’ve seen so many people do it and … I don’t know, is it what we’re taught to react like? Is it honest? Is it not? Is it subliminal? Is it society? It’s just something interesting.
Amanda Doyle:
Is it honest? I love that-
Glennon Doyle:
Is it honest?
Amanda Doyle:
Question. Is that reaction honest?
Abby Wambach:
Well, it’s like how do you want to live? Do you want to live in your past? Or do you want to live in your present? Right? And like that’s-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Or are you even allowed to live a certain way? Or you’re supposed to … was my instinct to immediately go to like, “Oh my gosh, they’re talking about all my achievements.” Like sort of cringe a little bit. Why aren’t we taught that our instincts should be proud of ourselves somehow?
Amanda Doyle:
It’s accepting a compliment. As soon as someone says anything to you, we’re taught to diminish that thing instead of elevating our gratitude for it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Exactly. You articulated it way better than I did. That’s why you do this as your profession, and I don’t. But that’s exactly it. It’s like we’re taught humility is almost directly proportional to performing in a humble manner versus feeling humility.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
I was at a table recently at my little birthday party and people were saying nice things about me around the table. And all I could think of is, “This will be over soon. This will be over soon.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That’s what I mean.
Glennon Doyle:
And it reminds me of-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Why are we trained that way?
Glennon Doyle:
Well, are we trained? It could be gendered, I don’t know. But I’ve never seen a man get smaller and cringey like when someone reads his accolades like women do.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Never. Oh my gosh. For sure.
Glennon Doyle:
But there is that William Blake quote that I think about all the time. That is, “We are put on this earth to learn to endure the beams of love.” It feels like an enduring, when someone does something or says something nice.
Amanda Doyle:
Only with Priyanka do we not even get-
Glennon Doyle:
Nope.
Amanda Doyle:
Through the bio without a deep philosophical exploration.
Abby Wambach:
So good.
Glennon Doyle:
And that’s what people need to know about this woman.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Everybody on earth knows who she is because of her fancy things. But she’s a fucking philosopher. For real. Okay.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I just like to think.
Glennon Doyle:
Priyanka, last time we talked was two years ago and it was during the pandemic, and your book Unfinished was just coming out, and your marriage was just a few years new, and your Malti Marie did not exist. You seem to have found your little slice of heaven at this moment. You’ve taken full charge of your career, you’re producing, you’re launching diverse voices, you’ve settled into life with your great love and now Malti Marie. But I like to talk about hell rather than heaven because this is more my comfort spot.
Glennon Doyle:
So let’s start this conversation in my idea of Hell, which is the middle school cafeteria. I want you to take us back to when you were 13, having just moved from India to America alone, and you’re going to middle school in Cedar Rapids. What was it like to be Priyanka at 13?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Couple of layers to that. I coveted wanting to come to America at 13 because, to me, I think of this girl in a small town in India called Bareilly. I go to this all girl school and we all wear uniforms because in India we don’t wear uniforms because it’s fancy. We wear uniforms because the socioeconomic background of all the students is not the same. So if you give them a uniform, there’s no one showing up trying to make the other person look bad. That stuff kind of gets mixed, which is great. It’s just boring for a teenager.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, but that’s why I love uniforms. I was a teacher and that’s why I love uniforms. We should all have uniforms.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Well, at 13, I hated them.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right. This is coming from somebody-
Glennon Doyle:
Teacher perspective, kid perspective.
Abby Wambach:
Hold on.
Amanda Doyle:
She’s a style icon-
Abby Wambach:
It’s coming from somebody-
Amanda Doyle:
She does not agree.
Abby Wambach:
Who didn’t wear uniforms. I wore uniforms and when you’re in it, it sucks.
Glennon Doyle:
All right, fine.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
It does.
Abby Wambach:
But when you’re out of it, you’re like, “Damn, I really miss those uniforms.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Now I’m like, okay, they were cute. But at that time, when you’re in it, it’s just really, really annoying. But I was that girl and I used to watch TV shows like 90210 and Saved by the Bell. And high school in America was just such a wondrous thing because there were these lockers and then there were boys and then there were more boys and that was a big attraction.
Glennon Doyle:
And you thought they all looked like Dylan McKay, I bet.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I did. I even thought that I could be Kelly Kapowski. What was I thinking? At 13 sitting in Bareilly, India.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
But when the opportunity arose, and my cousins lived here and used to write letters to each other at that time. And they used to write to me about their new schools and all the different things. And I remember we went for a vacation and I asked my aunt and my mom if I could stay back. And my aunt took me to the school and we met the counselors, got my visas done. It seemed to be a lot easier then, than it was now for a lot more students. Got it done. And suddenly, I was going to an American high school in ninth grade.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
But in my head, it was so different than what it ended up feeling. Like in my head, like I said, was Kelly Kapowski. But in reality, I wasn’t, I was a 13-year-old girl that had come from India that looked, felt, spoke different, did not have any friends. Now here I was with a schedule trying to figure out what the hell a homeroom is. I didn’t have any of those things and I was kind of thrown to the thick of it. And so I was a little bit scared, a little bit trying not to make a fool of myself. Because I kind of wanted to show up for myself and my people, which I didn’t see a lot of anyway. And suddenly everything was just new and I had to navigate new waters.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
But I come from a military background, not me personally, but my parents were both in the Indian Army. And there was a sense of discipline and a work ethic that my dad specifically had that I really imbibed, enjoyed, and he kind of bestowed upon me. Especially the fact that you show up. When it’s your job, you show up and you get it done, and you do it with the right attitude, and you respect people’s time. And the discipline of just figuring it out and following through.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
We used to move every two years because that’s what you do in the military. I remember the first time I was in kindergarten and I had a fit with my dad and I was like, “I’m not going. I have a best friend here, I’m doing really well here. I love this school.” And he like made it into this game for me. He said, “You know how you’re not doing well at math here and you don’t think that teacher likes you. When we go to the next school, no one will know anything about how you’re doing at math or you could start afresh.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And it started becoming this thing for me, where it was not hard to just pick up and start somewhere else because I wasn’t materially attached to anything. I was attached to my spirit, I was attached to adventure, I was attached to like, how do I win in this situation? So I was trying to win in ninth grade by just navigating this completely crazy waters while I had a crush on this guy. I’ll keep his identity hidden, except I’ll say his name was Seth. And he had green hair and my hormones were crazy. Anyway, while I’m navigating these new waters, it was really interesting. I wanted to actually make a TV show around like a young girl, a teenager, having to navigate that.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, you should.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That would be a funny show.
Glennon Doyle:
So when I was about that age, a little bit older. I used to sometimes eat lunch in the bathroom because I just couldn’t do it. I would stand there and-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Me too.
Glennon Doyle:
You did?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I did.
Glennon Doyle:
Interesting.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
The first few weeks I did. I didn’t know how a cafeteria worked. I didn’t know. And every school’s different. Do you pay there? You have to pick up a tray, you have to put a tray down. We brought lunch from home, back in India. Everyone brought lunch and lunch break was great because we were in our classes and everybody would pull out different kinds of food and it would be a big potluck. So here, it was so adult and-
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I wasn’t used to that. So I watched for the first few days, I remember there was a staircase that went down and I could watch the cafeteria. And I watched students do the thing and then somebody would slap on some food and then you would get a drink and then you’d find your table or your clique of friends, and I didn’t have that. So I remember my aunt used to give me a $1.50 or something for lunch. And I used to go to the vending machine, grab a bag of Doritos and go eat it in the bathroom, save that dollar. And at the end of a month, go to Express and buy a new shirt.
Abby Wambach:
Wow.
Glennon Doyle:
God, innovative-
Abby Wambach:
I spent-
Amanda Doyle:
Which you would then put in your book bag, right?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Because I wasn’t allowed, yes.
Amanda Doyle:
Your aunt was very conservative, and so you would bring your booty shorts in your book bag-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
And change when you got to school, right?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I used to leave it in my locker. When I emptied out my locker, there were more clothes than books in school.
Glennon Doyle:
Amazing. I used to do that, I used to wear different outfit to school and I used to steal my mom’s shit. Just take her earrings and whatever and then return them.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Nice.
Glennon Doyle:
This is how smart I was. I actually did that each day, but I had my school picture taken with all the shit on.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Wow.
Glennon Doyle:
So my mom was really like, “Really? Wow.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Wow.
Glennon Doyle:
Just not the perfect crime. So-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Very smart.
Glennon Doyle:
You decide at some point, though, to leave America. So I decided in high school one moment, walked into the cafeteria and said, “Nope, this shit is crazy. This is Lord of the Flies. I cannot do this one more day.” Walked into the counselor’s office and said, “I’m out of here. Send me somewhere else. I’m not moving.” And I ended up in a mental hospital, which was better. But you left American High School and went back to India.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know, it wasn’t the cleverest decision, it was more of an emotional one at that point. I didn’t realize that I was going to doom myself to complete an utter academic failure by going in 11th grade to India. Those are the two most crucial years in a student in India’s life and India’s very academic. The math was like years apart, the science was so far forward than what I’d even touched in American High School. So I arrived and I was feeling myself when I arrived back in Bareilly, living with my parents because I left as a flat chested 12 year old, and I came back American hormones and all. Really, really, yeah.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah, your dad didn’t even recognize you when you came back.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
No, because I grew, like I really grew tall and I was wearing high heels and my mom really wanted to present me in the most flamboyant and shocking way for my father. Just, I don’t know. Is that marriage? Like you want to do that to each other?
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I guess. Yes it is. Now I know. Now I know.
Abby Wambach:
That’s amazing.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
She put me in the shortest dress and I was like, are you sure? I’m landing in a Delhi airport looking like this. And she was like, “Yeah, dad will love it.”
Glennon Doyle:
She sounds fun.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I was even wearing a pushup bra.
Glennon Doyle:
Dad will love it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Oh yeah, dad didn’t love it.
Amanda Doyle:
No.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
He looked me up and down and I think I just saw a panic across his face and he immediately looked around and just held my shoulders and sort of put me in the car and was like, “We’ll discuss this when we get home.” And I haven’t seen my dad in four years, I’m like, “Okay, this is a little not warm.” No hug, nothing. But he was terrified of teenage me, it took him at least four or five months to kind of figure out what to do with a teenage daughter. Because I just kind of landed into their lives after three years of not being with them.
Glennon Doyle:
I think that’s a thing, a real thing. I think some fathers struggle when their daughters begin to become fully human. And it’s obvious that they have sexuality and desire. And I think it’s a freezing thing that parents do.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Definitely. Oh, definitely.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Especially coming from a culture like mine, you don’t talk about that stuff. It’s not … like it doesn’t exist. It’s like, “Ew, we don’t discuss that.” But my dad never liked anybody I’d dated anyway. And I just made my peace with it, I was just like, he’s never going to like anyone I dated with. But I do think he would actually really like my husband. If there was anyone that my dad would be pleased with, it would probably be Nick.
Amanda Doyle:
What would he like about him? If you put your dad and Nick in a room, what would be different about him that your dad would uniquely see?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I think Nick is … he has quiet confidence. Which is real confidence. You don’t have to shout it, you don’t have to be dripping with ice. You just kind of walk into a room and you own your space. My dad did that very well and he would like see through my boyfriends and pick them apart and be like, “Oh, he did this because of this. He did that because of that.” But I feel like this is one thing about Nick, like he’s very steady, he’s rooted. I think my dad would’ve really liked.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And he’s a musician. My dad’s first love was music. But when he was young, he was denied that because that was not an accessible career. So he had to go into medicine. And he always felt like that would’ve been his life’s dream, and so when I went into entertainment, he was so excited. Because it was in his way, a step closer to what he loved. So I think just watching Nick on stage … the stage was my dad’s favorite place. So that would’ve been really something that would’ve moved and inspired my dad.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I also think Nick’s a really family guy and my father was that, as well. Like the patriarch of the family. Not patriarchal, patriarch of the family. But at the same time, just making sure everyone’s together, everyone’s happy, super, creating experiences for everybody to feel at home, to feel comfortable. And so those are really important traits that would have mattered to him.
Amanda Doyle:
I just noticed something about what you said that connects to … we just interviewed Michelle Obama. And obviously, both of you are such incredibly powerful women. And she said the same thing about her father. He was a working class Black man at a very different time, he was an incredible artist. He had a scholarship for art and it was his passion, but that wasn’t expected or accessible for him. He had to go get a job and he worked in a water factory in Chicago. That wouldn’t have been an appropriate thing for your dad to do, is to be at that age. He had to go be a doctor and support his family.
Is there something that we’re cutting off from men? And is there a correlation between raising daughters that are, do whatever is inside of you, bring it out. Whether it’s a “expected of you” or not.
Glennon Doyle:
It reminds me of Gloria Steinem saying like, “Great, we’ve gotten to a place where we are raising our little girls, like little boys. But we’ll really have made progress when we start raising our little boys like they’re little girls.” Allowing the creativity and the softness and the art.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
The vulnerability and the ability to cry. Totally. My dad was such a softie too, but he would never cry. And if he’d cried, he would’ve always cry alone. I don’t think I ever saw him cry, but I know he was a crier because he cried in movies. And I know because my mom told me when he did. But he never allowed it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I do think that my generation, for sure, we have made many strides where I think men and women alike kind of feel a sense of ability to express or make choices. And that is because our parents before us kind of sacrificed that, in doing what they did and built a life. My father and my mother gave me the ability while they worked and sacrificed their dreams, to build a life for myself where my voice wasn’t questioned, where I had options. Where if I wanted to be in art, my dad was like, “Yes, you will go into art.” If I wanted to travel the world, my mom was like, “No one will stop you.” So I think they fought for my ability to have that freedom. And now it’s my responsibility to be able to take something out of whatever baggage my daughter in the next generation will carry. Like what are we going to fix?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And for me, a lot of it was being able to have agency, and be able to share the same kind of respect, and have some sort of equality, and have the same voice. Especially when you’re delivering a job, when it’s work. There shouldn’t be no place for gender at work, that should be merit. I think that those are things that I feel like our generation is making massive strides in, where women are finding our own agency, sitting here and talking to incredibly powerful women that you have built your own lives with your own two hands. You are opinionated, you’re inspiring, you have taken your voice and turned it into your careers, you have thought-provoking conversations which inspire the next generation of women. That’s what I mean. There are so many incredible women I see around me, right now that have taken charge of their own careers instead of waiting for men to create space for them. And that’s like an amazing time to be around women. It’s so powerful.
Amanda Doyle:
One of the things that’s most inspiring to me about you is you’re this international celebrity, but you know where the line is where nobody gets an explanation from you. And so you’re an 18-year-old high school person and then you become what appears to be overnight, an international celebrity through Miss World. And right after that, there’s something that happens to you-
Glennon Doyle:
Miss World, just stop for a second. She won Miss World of the World.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, real quick.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
At 18.
Glennon Doyle:
Of the world. Of all the people.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Of the whole world.
Amanda Doyle:
Of the world.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Of the people in-
Amanda Doyle:
Five years before you were Kelly Kapowski eating Doritos in the bathroom.
Abby Wambach:
In Cedar Rapids.
Glennon Doyle:
She’s like, “I can’t cut it in Cedar Rapids. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to win the world.” Okay, so that happens.
Amanda Doyle:
And so you’re kind of thrust into this overnight and I was fascinated by when you had to get that surgery with your nose and the world was commentating, commentating. And you neither defended yourself nor explained yourself. And Glennon has this line in her book where she says, “The most revolutionary thing that a woman can do is refuse to explain herself.” And you have embodied so much of that. How do you decide what goes on what side of the line? And do you have any peace yet that you have been able to establish with deciding to let whoever think whatever, and that it’s none of your business.
Glennon Doyle:
When to fight back and what to leave alone?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That’s such a tricky question because I still navigated in a big way. But the incident with my nose which, for the unversed, I was Miss World, and there was some accident where the bridge of my nose collapsed and my face really changed. And I had to have reconstructive surgery to fix it. And my dad was a surgeon, so it was highly traumatic for him because he was like, “How could this happen? And how do I fix it?”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And for me, I was 18 years old, I had seen these big dreams of this big career, which I saw crashing in front of me. I wouldn’t look at my face in the mirror. I didn’t recognize the person that was there. I didn’t know what to do. I was being kicked out of movies because people were like, “Ooh, she looks bad now.” And it was just the worst time. I think at that time I didn’t comment because I didn’t know what to say. I was hiding and I was just trying to survive and keep my head above water.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I did movies with smaller roles in them just to kind of buy time so I could find my feet. And my dad held my hand and he was like, “I know my doctor friend.” And he was in the OR with me when my reconstructive surgery happened. He did it with his friend. My dad didn’t do it, he was in the OR with the friend that did it. And slowly my face started becoming familiar. It was still not the same, but it started looking normal. I shot for a bunch of movies while these surgeries were happening.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
So I didn’t know what to say, I didn’t know how to say it. And I just kind of navigated it and tried to deflect from the truth of what was actually happening in my life. And I just played the game, honestly, in the beginning. I was flashy, I was giggly, I was sassy. I was on the carpet saying the funny things. I was wearing the best clothes. I just played the part, honestly.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Till a few years in, and I started like … the waters calmed a little bit and I kind of found my ground. My movies were doing well, my face kind of remained consistent. I became familiar with this person. I understood how to be an actor and what the craft requires, and I was kind of finding my own footing a little bit. And just then, like six of my movies didn’t do well, I had back to back controversies with some reason or the other.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And I just remember … this was not an overnight thing. But it was me being really upset about some salacious piece of news or whatever that had come in. And my mom or someone who was sitting in my trailer was like, “Today’s news is tomorrow’s trash. Today’s news is tomorrow’s trash. Who gives a shit?” And I was like, “No, I must respond to this person and I must correct them.” And it’s just another news cycle. And then it becomes another news cycle and then you’re correcting them and suddenly you look back and like a week has just been about you.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Because you can’t stop talking about it and correcting it for someone. And this kept happening. And I remember somebody said, “Today’s news is tomorrow’s trash. So if you validate it today, you’re validating it for tomorrow and then another news cycle. People are just making a lot of money off of you and you’re kind of doing it to yourself.”
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And it was like in a movie, I’m not even joking. So street food in Mumbai is a big thing and I love street food. So outside my home studios in Mumbai where I film a lot and most people film, it’s iconic studio in Bandra and Mumbai. There is a street stall guy and I used to always get like sandwiches or some snack from him. And he used to always put the snack in a newspaper and send it. So this snack came in a newspaper and I swear to God, I’m sitting in my trailer eating it. And that paper was that salacious article about me and it was my trash for the day.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, so good. Thank you universe.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
How crazy? And that’s the day I realized I was like, I have given this silly thing legs because I was just like, I needed to validate and correct and-
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I’m going home, my parents don’t care. We had a great dinner, we’re laughing, we’re watching movies, my family and friends. And that’s the day I really decided, I decided that as long as my inner circle-
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Knows my truth. As long as the people that actually give a shit about my joy, my success, that are actually happy for my good times and that are sad in my bad times with me. As long as those people are not hurting, I have not done anything deliberate to hurt anyone. I don’t need to talk about anything. Because my fame is a byproduct of my job. My job is not to be famous. My job is to go to set and work and create movies and entertainment that people enjoy watching. There is a degree of separation.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, there is.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Me, as a person, I go home, I try to be a good daughter, I try to be a good mom, a good wife, family, friends. I’m normal. My job just creates the thing. And it’s like something that I had to come to terms with. But that’s when I realized I was like, this whole thing of responding and making statement after statement and needing to clear it up. Sometimes, yes, it’s required for important conversations. But most of the time it ends up being tabloid gossip. And I don’t want to be run down like that, I don’t want my life to be at more dinner conversation than it already is by nature of my job. So when it needs to be public, I’m very graceful and gracious about it. I’m very aware of when I’m in public moments and when I need to belong to the people who have paid to buy tickets to my movie. And then there are those times when I know are private to me and I’m very good at hiding.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s so dignified. I got so confused about this for a while because I believe in accountability for myself. I believe in accountability. And so I, for 10 years, have been confused that accountability means that I should be accountable to millions of people on the internet.
Abby Wambach:
It’s impossible.
Glennon Doyle:
Like really.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
You can’t make anyone happy as soon as you become a public person, in whatever way or form. Minus by being an actor, yours is by being an author, whatever your version. Once you springboard onto being a public person for whatever reason, your life and what people say about you will never be in your control. And that’s just the deal that you make.
Glennon Doyle:
And I think it’s for everybody. I think this applies to every single one of us who’s listening to this right now. I have just as many calls from friends who are not in the public sphere and are dealing with the fricking PTA talking shit about them or their in-laws thinking one thing about them.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Totally.
Glennon Doyle:
Right? It’s like it’s a phenomenon that is unavoidable. And the idea … I get most of my advice from ancient spiritual texts or memes, I have nothing in between. And the idea of, first of all, you do not have to attend every argument you’re invited to. Right?
Abby Wambach:
Oh, I love that.
Glennon Doyle:
And the idea of, let whomever think whatever. And it is not-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Even if it’s in your PTA, even if it’s in your WhatsApp group or your friends’ dinner circle.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I used to struggle with that a lot was, oh my gosh, I had a tough day at work. I’m tired and if I don’t go, what will they think of me? When I was younger, I used to think about all of those things. Or will people think that I’m not supportive? Will people think that I’m not being a good friend?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I think that your point is so important and I think needs to be iterated, that it’s impossible to make everyone happy. And we are somehow trained that every single person that you meet should react to you with extreme and utter joy and wonder because we’re perfect. And we’re not. Of course, I didn’t learn this in my twenties. But every single thing that we’re struggling with, our insecurities, our problems, our drama. When other people go to bed too, they’re also having difficulty sleeping. They’re also thinking about a million things that are keeping them up at night. You’re not alone in this. And I feel like people feel very alone, and we let the fear of needing to validate everyone or make everyone happy, become so large that it becomes overwhelming.
Abby Wambach:
It’s an epidemic of people pleasing.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah, or being understood. Or I want you to understand where I’m coming from, you get me, right?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Doesn’t matter.
Amanda Doyle:
But the truth is-
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
You only need a couple people that get you.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That’s it.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Everyone does not need to understand your reasons, your decisions.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And that’s actually better said, like for me, going back to the earlier point of why not clarify, why not explain. It’s the same thing is, I can’t live my life explaining every decision. I make so many decisions, I’m an adult. I consider myself a person with values, with virtue, someone who tries to be a good person every day. I work really hard, I hustle really hard. And I push myself and I try to keep my family together. And that’s like each and every one of us.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And within that, you just be the best person that you can be. You cannot explain all your decisions to every single person. Some will be good, some will be bad, some will be in the middle. As long as every day you’re just trying to get through it, making memories and sticking to your ambitions, being one step forward and being nice in the best possible way.
Glennon Doyle:
And it’s not all or nothing. This is where I went. I think people are either, I’m going to prove to the world I’m a good person all the time. Or-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Oh, yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Fuck it, I don’t care what anyone thinks. And that’s not it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
You can have moments. Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
I do believe in accountability. It’s not, I don’t care what anyone thinks. It’s, I care very much what these people who have earned my trust and who I know in real life and who I love. Because I have a small circle and there are many people in that circle who will look at me when I’m like, and they’ll be like, “That’s horse shit.” And I’m like, “Oh yeah.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And that’s what you need.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Instead of having friends in your life that are like, “Wow, you’re amazing. What you said was awesome.” You have to have a tight group, your inner circle of people that will turn around and say, “That was bullshit.” That’ll turn around and say, “I don’t think you should have said that.” Or that’ll actually give you the real. Because everyone doesn’t have the courage to do it. Especially when you’re a bigger personality and you have opinions. I’m not like subtle, exactly.
Glennon Doyle:
And your dad, maybe, when you were five, would turn to you at the kitchen table and say, “Priyanka, what is your opinion about this?” When you were five.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Yeah, he would.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s amazing.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
So I thought having an opinion was awesome.
Glennon Doyle:
It is.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I’ve found friends and family that think the same. And I think we have to all … each one of us individually, just we have to protect ourselves. Especially right now, we are in such a different time and our generation is going to be one of the last generations to have gone through the coming in of the internet, and what that did, and how the world became such a small place. And now suddenly we have a barrage of information coming at us and young kids.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
When I was 14, 15, I did not know what was happening around the world as much as I do today. So I can’t even imagine how much information kids get. And necessarily, we have to really think about that. That’s powerful. But at the same time, it’s extremely overwhelming, overbearing. Can change the outcome of how we think-
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Because of this extra added pressure that people, not just kids, but people feel. That the best version of our lives is on Instagram, including me. I’m not putting my morning face up there without a filter.
Glennon Doyle:
Not even Miss World, people. Not even Miss World.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
No, no.
Abby Wambach:
You have to tell us a story of the night that you fell hard for Nick at the Met Gala.
Glennon Doyle:
I love this story. It’s my fave.
Abby Wambach:
Please tell us the story.
Glennon Doyle:
Because of my social anxiety, I really love this story.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know, it’s such a weird story to … I don’t know if I fell in love with him that day. But I kind of was like … it was like the, today’s news is tomorrow’s trash moment. Where I saw my face in this oily samosa oil and I was like, “Wow universe. Way to hit the nail on the head.”
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That is not subtle.
Amanda Doyle:
Not subtle.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Not subtle. I took that shit and threw it in the trash.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I love it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And I was like … so this was one of those moments. And I’ve had a few of these play up in my life. I really believe in destiny, I really believe in what is meant for you will come your way. You just have to take one step at a time, one foot forward. Instead of thinking about the end game or where you want to go. Just one step forward and what was meant for you will come to you.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And oh, this was so funny because here I am, trying to pop a music career, which is not happening. And I started doing a TV show, which was for ABC, and it suddenly did really well. So I was really feeling myself because I was like, “Oh phew. Finally.” I was so afraid that I was going to have a failed music career and no career at all. And then finally now, I have a hit TV show. So I was kind of really happy that I had risen from the ashes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
But what was terrifying was I was in this completely new country. I didn’t know people here, I didn’t have friends here. I don’t know the industry folk. Like how when you grow up, you go to parties, you’re like you know each other, you kind of meet people where you’ve worked with each other or crossed paths. I didn’t have that. I came from a completely different industry altogether.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
So when my first Met was happening and I was going with Ralph Lauren, very excited. And I don’t know why, I still don’t have an answer to this question because I don’t think it’s a normal thing to do. They asked Nick and I individually, if we were both going alone, if we both would go together on behalf of the brand.
Glennon Doyle:
The same force that put that oily samosa in your hand.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah, exactly.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
So weird.
Amanda Doyle:
Was it your mom?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
No. Can you imagine if she like … we find out 10 years later, she orchestrated it. She and Ralph were having the samosa.
Amanda Doyle:
She’s pretty good at that.
Abby Wambach:
She and Ralph.
Amanda Doyle:
She’s like, “Hey, Ralph.” Just hook me up-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Hey Ralph.
Amanda Doyle:
With one thing.
Glennon Doyle:
She’s like, “And put Priyanka in heels and a pushup bra.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Facts. Anyway, so we arrive at the Met and he was just super quiet in the bus. My train took up the entire bus because my train was spread out. And Nick had to stand against the corner of a wall because there was no space for him to fit. And very sweet-
Amanda Doyle:
So he passed that test. That was good.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Passed that test. I wasn’t testing him at that time, but now in retrospect, he passed it.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, it’s a retro test is what we call it. Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
He’s standing against the corner like this, didn’t say much, quiet. People are fussing over me, someone’s touching something, someone’s pinning something. The bus doors open, he steps out, turns around, gives me his hand. And I was like, “Oh, that’s so nice.” And we stepped out together and we walked the carpet and he stepped away and gave me my individual moment and did his individual moment. And then we walked inside, we said hi to Anna Wintour and all the other cohorts-
Glennon Doyle:
As you do.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
As you do at the Met. And I’m learning all of this, too, because this is my first time and Nick’s kind of giving me the lowdown on what happens. And we walk into the exhibition and I was looking at something and I turned around and I didn’t see anyone. I didn’t see him, I didn’t see people. I started hearing a little bit of chatter, so I walked around the bend and I just saw a sea full of people that I had only seen on television. I did not know anyone. And I was spinning out in my head about what my next step is going to be, I was like-
Glennon Doyle:
High School cafeteria. Was there a vending machine?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
School cafeteria.
Amanda Doyle:
Were there Doritos?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Exactly.
Amanda Doyle:
You’re like, “All I need is a bathroom. Can this train fit in the bathroom?”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Where are my bag of Doritos when you need them? And I don’t know, I feel like I had these big eyes and I was just staring into the room to what, to me, felt like at least 10, 15 minutes. But I just suddenly heard Nick’s voice and my eyes focused in on his face. And he just showed me his hand and he said, “Shall we?” And I was like-
Glennon Doyle:
We shall, Nick, we shall.
Amanda Doyle:
Let us.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I let a breath out, I think I wasn’t breathing or something. I let a breath out and we had a great night and he didn’t leave my side all night. We met up with a brother and his fiance at the time, and friends. And I met my friends, I suddenly realized, I was like, “Wow, I actually do know people at the Met.” But at that time when I was on the carpet, it was so overwhelming. I knew a few people, who after having a little bit of liquid courage and going to the after parties, I was like, “Oh, I could do this better next year.” But it was such a knight in shining armor moment.
Glennon Doyle:
He was paying attention.
Abby Wambach:
Shall we?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I think so.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I think so. I think he may have turned around and saw my panic stricken face. But it’s such a charming thing to say, “Shall we?”
Glennon Doyle:
It really is. Anybody who saves you from … I will marry anyone-
Abby Wambach:
No.
Glennon Doyle:
Who saves me from being alone at a party. This weekend we were at an Angel City game, so we’re really involved with this new soccer team in LA.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Oh, amazing. Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
And they have all these like people who run around with remote controls. What are they called? Like CBs, just to make sure everyone’s okay.
Abby Wambach:
Oh, walk-talkies?
Amanda Doyle:
Wait, you mean like walkie-talkies?
Glennon Doyle:
Walkie-talkies.
Amanda Doyle:
I’m like, remote?
Glennon Doyle:
Right, whatever. So Abby goes to the bathroom … okay, Priyanka, I’ve been at these things like 60 times. Okay, this is like we are involved. Abby goes to the bathroom, so I don’t know what to do with myself with all these people who I actually know. So I go out to the hallway and stand by myself and I’m pretending to be on my phone. And someone with the walkie-talkie walks over to me and she goes, “Are you okay?” And I was like, “Yeah, I’m just standing here.” And she goes, “I know, but we were told if you were alone to come and make sure you’re okay.” And I was like, “Actually I’m not. Can you stand here?” I don’t know where Abby is.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Who told on you?
Abby Wambach:
Everybody knows. I’ve told everybody if Glennon is alone, go stand with her.
Glennon Doyle:
She’s terrified, go stand with her.
Amanda Doyle:
Everyone has like-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Nicely done Abby.
Amanda Doyle:
A rider with their very specific-
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
The only one on Glennon’s rider is, please don’t let me be-
Glennon Doyle:
She’s terrified, she’s terrified.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
That’s what I mean, shall we?
Glennon Doyle:
Shall we, that’s what they say.
Amanda Doyle:
That was so good.
Glennon Doyle:
So Priyanka, sweet Malti Marie comes into the world and she spends a hundred days in the NICU. We have so many NICU moms that listen here. What do you want to tell us about that time with Malti? And if it’s nothing, just say nothing and we’ll move on.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah, exactly.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
No, I remember when she was born, she came so early that … I can deal with a lot of things. But when I don’t see a solution forward, I kind of become stuck. I don’t know if you guys have ever had this reaction. I can’t move like physically cannot take the next step forward. And it doesn’t happen very often. But right before my dad died, I kind of just felt like I became a statue. I couldn’t move because I had done everything in the world I could. I traveled him, I flew into Singapore to Sloan Kettering, everywhere. And now, here he was in a coma and it was happening. And it was happening and I just could not move. And I felt like I needed somebody to pick up my hand to move it. And that’s exactly what happened when Malti was supposed to come and I just couldn’t move because I knew that was very early.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
It was just terrifying coming from just medical history that I’d had. I just remember getting stuck and sitting in front of the fireplace for like six hours that day. And when Nick came home I was just like, “Tell me what to do.” And he was like, “Just change, we’re leaving.” And we went to the hospital and then everything happened. But I just couldn’t move when I heard and I needed him to come in physically pick me up, tell me to go wear my jeans instead of my robe and sit in the car.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
The one thing that I will tell people who go through a NICU journey, NICU parents. Once you see your child in a neonatal intensive care unit, it changes you forever. And especially a newborn. I know I was someone who had to go into the PICU, which is the pediatrics ICU many times because I was asthmatic as a child. I was a sickly kid. So hospitals were familiar to me, my parents were both doctors. I kind of grew up with my parents. But there is something about these little, little, little humans that just … they don’t even look real. They look like specimens or something. And the people that work with them.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And all I remember was saying, “Let’s just go to one more day, just one more day, one more day.” Two o’clock in the morning. Then she would cry or her temperature would go up and the nurse was just like, “One more day.” And that’s all I thought of in my head. That I’m just so grateful and so lucky to be in a position where my daughter could have this kind of healthcare, where she could survive and be alive today because we had the ability to get her that kind of access.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I have traveled around the world, I was just on a recent trip to India, even. Where there are so many parts of the world that do not even know what a neonatal intensive care unit is. Where babies don’t survive, they don’t have a chance when they’re premature. Where there’s like no access to care like this. It really … sitting in the NICU for hours made me feel so grateful for the opportunity, the privilege, the luck that we had the ability to give our daughter. And that because of that, she could survive and today, thrive.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
But it just made me very grateful and it bonded me forever with … I met so many NICU parents after our story and when we talked about our journey. There are so many babies that are born premature and then survive and thrive. So many of my own family and friend circle that I didn’t know were premature. And it’s a journey for a lot of parents, but it’s the hardest thing that I know Nick and I have ever done. And we held each other up. It was COVID time, so there was no one else allowed except him and I. When I had a bad day, he held me up. He had a bad day, I held him up. We took shifts. He would do day shift, I would do night shift. But we made sure every single day, she was never without one of us. But it was the hardest thing I’ve ever witnessed or gone through because she was just so little and so helpless.
Glennon Doyle:
Thank you for that.
Glennon Doyle:
I want to end with this, you have said of little Malti Marie, I want her to be able-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I can hear her babbling outside right now when I’m telling the story.
Abby Wambach:
Aw baby.
Glennon Doyle:
She’s like, “Two minutes mom. Two minutes.” So you said, “I want her to be able to look back and be proud of my choices. I want to do right by her.” It’s so interesting, circling back to accountability and who we need to care about, what they think of our decisions and who we don’t. She seems like perhaps she’ll be one of your greatest accountability partners, if I know anything about parenting, that will be true.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
What does it mean to you to do right by her?
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I think I want her like I am. I’m so proud of my parents. I’m proud of having my parents as my parents. I’m proud of the people they are, I’m proud of the decisions they made. Even in their tough times, I was proud of the fact that they were okay with going through the tough times but we did it together as a family. It was always a Chopra family discussion, as a family on the dining table, the four of us, we would talk things through. We were just a unit. And I just feel so proud to have been raised with nothing being overwhelming because I had my family.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
It was such a powerful feeling for me as a child. And my family, I don’t just mean my parents, I mean my grandparents, my mom’s sisters, my aunts. I lived with so many people. I just never felt like I couldn’t do anything in the world and I’d be alone because I had such a support structure. And my parents created that world for me. They gave me the access and the ability to have those relationships with my family, my friends. They gave me the freedom to be able to make decisions, to travel the world at 12, 13, trusted my independence, their upbringing.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
So I think going by how I feel about my parents, I hope that when she grows up, she kind of is proud of me. She’s kind of proud of the human being that I am, the artist that I am. I hope she feels inspired by me, by the choices I’ve made. And she looks up to me maybe and says that my mom’s cool. I would love if she thinks I’m cool.
Glennon Doyle:
She won’t.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
She will not.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
No, I know.
Abby Wambach:
That’s a tough one.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know you would say that. I know.
Amanda Doyle:
Until she’s your age.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, exactly.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I didn’t think when-
Amanda Doyle:
Just wait about 40 years and she’ll be like-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
“My mom is so cool.”
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I’m going to aim for cool.
Glennon Doyle:
The rest is doable. The rest is doable, Priyanka.
Glennon Doyle:
You are one of my favorite people out in the world. I just think that who you are, and the way you show up, and the way you speak, and what you speak about, and what you don’t speak about, and the way that you are raising your family. You just don’t change a damn thing.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Thank you.
Amanda Doyle:
Other than maybe your expectation that you’re daughter thinks you’re cool.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Yeah.
Amanda Doyle:
Maybe just change that-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
But nothing else.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I’m going to keep aiming for it.
Amanda Doyle:
If anyone can do it, you can, Priyanka.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I’m striving to bring this upside down cap back and-
Amanda Doyle:
See? See already, it’s not working.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
It’s not working yet, no one’s buying it. But I’m going to keep striving at it, and I’m going to keep striving and making my daughter think I’m cool. When she pushes my face and she’s like.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I’m like, wow, this is so telling of my future.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, like the samosas.
Abby Wambach:
It’s humble pie. Humble pie. She’ll come around, though. In the teenage years, she might be like, “Eh.” But then I think in the twenties, late teens.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, because if they think you’re cool when they’re teenagers, you’re definitely doing something wrong. You’re like Mean Girls mom. Okay.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Definitely.
Glennon Doyle:
We love you. Carry on, don’t change a thing.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I love you, guys. Thank you so much for being so amazing and talking about really incredible things, and just having people have conversations. It’s such a powerful thing.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, this has been. Pod Squad.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
I always love talking to you, babe.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, me too.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And you, Abby. And you, Amanda. So nice to meet all of you.
Amanda Doyle:
Thank you, so nice to meet you.
Abby Wambach:
Totally.
Glennon Doyle:
Bye, Priyanka. Bye, Malti Marie.
Amanda Doyle:
Love Again-
Glennon Doyle:
Bye Pod Squad.
Amanda Doyle:
Quantico, Citadel. Go re-watch Quantico, go watch Citadel.
Abby Wambach:
Quantico. Ugh, God.
Amanda Doyle:
So good.
Abby Wambach:
I watched every episode.
Amanda Doyle:
Love again.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Citadel drops April 28th. First two episodes, terrifying and exciting at the same time. Because I did take a little bit of a second with Malti being born and just I needed a second to now, I had these two big projects back to back coming out. And it just feels like I’m ready and I’m ready to take it on. And Love Again is amazing because for the rest of history, I’ll always be in Celine Dion’s acting debut.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s it. Can’t take it from you. Can never take it.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Cannot take that away from me.
Amanda Doyle:
There’s your cool ticket. There it is.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
There it is. And she’s so good in the movie, it’s an amazing romantic comedy. You know the romantic movies, Sleepless in Seattle, that have heart, that made you cry. This is that movie. It makes you feel the feels.
Amanda Doyle:
And we deserve that-
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
And it’s coming out on Mother’s Day.
Amanda Doyle:
At this moment.
Glennon Doyle:
We do deserve that.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
In the movie theaters to feel the feels with everyone.
Amanda Doyle:
Yes.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
So I hope that people really enjoy it, it’ll be a fun ride.
Glennon Doyle:
Sure will. Thank you, Priyanka
Abby Wambach:
Pod Squad, we’ll see you next time.
Priyanka Chopra Jonas:
Pod Squad.
Glennon Doyle:
Thank you.
Glennon Doyle:
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you’d be willing to take 30 seconds to do each or all of these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to, We Can Do Hard Things. Following the pod helps you because you’ll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you’ll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
Glennon Doyle:
While you’re there, if you’d be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence13 Studios.