What We’re Watching, Reading & Listening to Right Now
April 21, 2023
Glennon Doyle:
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Are we recording?
Abby Wambach:
Yes, how many of these episodes… Have we done 200 episodes? And every single time folks, Glennon doesn’t get the process.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s because I have beginner’s mind.
Amanda Doyle:
You sure do, you sure do.
Abby Wambach:
She starts talking and we haven’t even hit the record button.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay, everybody, so welcome to We Can Do Hard Things where we’re going to be…
Amanda Doyle:
Hope it’s recording.
Glennon Doyle:
Sweet and kind to each other.
Abby Wambach:
Here we go.
Glennon Doyle:
This is an utterly thrilling episode, because we finally get to talk about one of my favorite subjects besides coffee and boundaries and gender, and how forgiveness is not really a thing.
Amanda Doyle:
Something tells me we’re going to get to those in the course of this conversation.
Glennon Doyle:
We’re talking about TV today. We’re going to talk about what we are watching, reading, all of the things that we are consuming. Because sometimes it feels like Abby and I spend most of our life just sitting on the couch trying to figure out what to watch.
Glennon Doyle:
Do you think that that is true?
Abby Wambach:
Well, not most. There’s a lot of time spent into, what should we watch?
Glennon Doyle:
What should we watch?
Abby Wambach:
We’re Googling, best TV series on television 2023.
Glennon Doyle:
I Google it every night. Yes, just in case someone has written a new article. That’s what I do every single night. And truly what I want to say is I think sometimes I am trying to be more erudite than I am.
Abby Wambach:
That’s smart, right?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
Educated.
Abby Wambach:
It’s very erudite of me.
Glennon Doyle:
But the truth is that most of my life, no matter what I’m doing, no matter what it is, all I’m trying to do is get back to my couch to watch TV. That’s it. If I’m at the most amazing thing, if I’m at a kid’s thing, if I’m taking a walk, if I’m enjoying nature, really what I’m trying to do is just get back to the couch and turn on the television.
Abby Wambach:
Why do you think that is?
Glennon Doyle:
I love coziness.
Amanda Doyle:
It is your homeostasis point.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, because I’m a home sexual.
Amanda Doyle:
There it is.
Abby Wambach:
There it is. There’s the sexuality.
Amanda Doyle:
We got it in people. Thank you for coming to We Can Do Hard Things.
Glennon Doyle:
Couch is my church. Because I freaking love my family so much and I love my couch, and I love togetherness with the family where no one’s talking. We’re all together, but we’re staring… It’s like the campfire. We’re at a campfire, but without any mosquitoes.
Abby Wambach:
I have a theory about this for you.
Glennon Doyle:
What?
Abby Wambach:
Because I think that there’s a small part of you that feels like that isn’t the best way to be living a life from an erudite’s perspective.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I panic. I panic when we do it too much.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, you really do. You have limits on how many shows we can watch in a row. If she says at any point, “You want to watch the next one?” My inside, I’m just so excited.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s Abby’s sexuality.
Abby Wambach:
It really is.
Abby Wambach:
My theory is you spend so much of your day living inside of your brain, and now your body and the way you’re working through stuff internally, I think that actually, your body and your mind is telling you, I need to have a shutoff valve to this.
Abby Wambach:
And you get to escape your own personal drama and enter into somebody else’s, whether it’s mindless or not.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, you remember that show that was like wrestling, and it would be like Randy Macho Man Savage? Like that wrestling, WWE?
Amanda Doyle:
WWF.
Glennon Doyle:
Right, every once in a while they’d be wrestling, wrestling, wrestling, and then they would tap out. They would be like, “I’m too tired. I’m done.”
Glennon Doyle:
I feel like life is one big wrestling match, and I’m struggling and throwing haymakers all day, and then-
Abby Wambach:
You’re bringing in a fucking wrestling analogy to this.
Glennon Doyle:
I am.
Amanda Doyle:
That’s what I think of you when I think of you, I’m like Glennon Doyle.
Glennon Doyle:
I continue multitudes.
Amanda Doyle:
Almost exactly like Randy, what was his name?
Abby Wambach:
Macho Man Savage.
Glennon Doyle:
Macho Man Savage.
Amanda Doyle:
Randy Savage.
Glennon Doyle:
The point is life is a wrestling match, and sometimes you have to tap out, and since I think maybe some people who don’t have any tap outs left who are out of tap outs like booze, like-
Amanda Doyle:
Tapped out of tap outs?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, I’m tapped out of tap outs. My tap out is television because being a human is intolerable-
Abby Wambach:
It’s hard.
Glennon Doyle:
After a certain point in the day.
Amanda Doyle:
Have you read Lessons in Chemistry?
Glennon Doyle:
Oh my God, it’s on my list to discuss today.
Amanda Doyle:
Okay. Well, do you know the part where they’re trying to convince her to do that TV show and the guy explains the psychology and he calls it the afternoon depression zone?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
Where their circadian rhythms were made to sleep at night and have a siesta but we’re one of the only cultures that refuses to allow ourselves the rest, so our body needs it. So we zone out in front of the TV in the afternoon depression zone, and that’s why they make those shows just barely engaging enough so that you can kind of disassociate from yourself. Basically that means you should just be going to sleep.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, it’s so true. Abby does that. Abby takes a nap every afternoon, and my God, did it for the first couple years till a couple weeks ago to make me want to die because it was like, “What are you doing? You are just resting at me?” That is the way it’s supposed to be. This siesta is… That’s why Abby is such a happy person, and that’s why do we all need the caffeine right at 2:30 or three o’clock or why do we all start crashing because we’re supposed to crash, but we fight our natural rhythms.
Abby Wambach:
Sister, what is your relationship to television?
Glennon Doyle:
Also, have you read Lessons in Chemistry or did you just read an article about it?
Amanda Doyle:
Well, I had to bring it up because it’s the only second book that I’ve read outside of this podcast in the past 24 months
Glennon Doyle:
Besides How to Raise an Adult, which she’s been reading for three years.
Amanda Doyle:
You would think that the show is sponsored by How to Raise an Adult because I’ve been reading it for six months because it’s like 300 pages long, and that’s how long it takes me to read that much.
Glennon Doyle:
The good news is, Sissy, by the time you’re done, Bobby and Alice will be adults, and so it’ll still be applicable, that book.
Amanda Doyle:
I’ll be like, “I did it.” Okay, so I’ll tell you what, for this podcast you told me I had to watch a TV show, so I did watch it and I will tell you what. TV is infuriating because they don’t let you watch it at 1.5. So I listen to audio books and I listen to podcasts, and I’m like, “Why are they talking so slow?” Why is TV so… They’re like, “Hello, I am Mary.” And I realize it’s because I’m so used to 1.5 on everything that I’m like, “Oh, no. I guess that’s how people normally talk.”
Glennon Doyle:
Sister. I think that this is a metaphor for you. I think you are used to 1.5 in most things, and that is why normal human beings and our rhythms drive you bat shit crazy.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah, it really does.
Glennon Doyle:
Because the whole world to you sounds like, “Hello.”
Amanda Doyle:
But I did, and it was odd, but I don’t just watch TV. I don’t know.
Glennon Doyle:
But also, do you think that it’s because it’s a different intention, you’re just trying to get through something so you speed it up, whereas some people are using it as an actual decompressing time, so the speed isn’t the problem because they’re not trying to just finish it.
Amanda Doyle:
Yea, I’m sure if you’re trying to make your brain go slower, probably doing it at double speed is not conducive with that.
Glennon Doyle:
So you do not watch TV?
Amanda Doyle:
I’m like, “If everyone else can watch this episode in an hour, I can watch it in 35.”
Glennon Doyle:
Oh my God.
Abby Wambach:
Do you think that there’s any evidence or something that is really positive around tapping out? Because I actually think that that’s a really important thing for people and realize that watching TV is a privilege for some folks, right?
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I had little kids. There was not a lot of that, no.
Abby Wambach:
It’s a huge privilege, but I do think for high functioning people who need to go at 1.5 speed, do you think that maybe it would be helpful if you had this one hour every night that you slow down?
Glennon Doyle:
Honey, can you talk faster so she can understand you?
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah. I’m like, “God, you could have said that a lot more efficiently.” I like a family movie night. We do those sometimes. We went through all the Star Wars during Covid, and that was really fun. I really enjoyed that. I like to watch the sports. It’s like a bonding thing with Bobby and me. We’ll watch baseball games and that’s fun.
Glennon Doyle:
Those are like .5.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my God, it’s like watching grass grow.
Amanda Doyle:
But you know what?
Glennon Doyle:
She’s defensive about baseball.
Amanda Doyle:
Poor baseball is underrated. I feel like baseball is an analogy for a human. You look on the outside, it looks like you’re doing three things, but you are actually doing a hundred things-
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, really?
Amanda Doyle:
…for every one thing that you see. So I’m into baseball now. I also, the March Madness, it’s really fun. So it’s a thing with some intention. We’re doing a thing here.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, exactly. We are family bonding. Check.
Amanda Doyle:
Rather than the mindless thing. Yeah, check. Look, we did that.
Abby Wambach:
It’s a communal experience for sure, for you.
Glennon Doyle:
In terms of the tapping out from being human. I think I may have mentioned this before that I am obsessed with this, but you know those circuit breakers, you know those boxes in the garage that have the row of things that when the lights go out-
Abby Wambach:
It’s a circuit breaker.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. So being human is one of those boxes and everybody just has to, it gets too hot and then you have to flip it to stop being human for a while, and then if you don’t, the whole house burns down. So what are your… I’m done flipping the circuit breaker switch thing. If it’s not TV and it’s not booze anymore?
Abby Wambach:
Crickets. She doesn’t have any. Oh my God.
Amanda Doyle:
I should look into that. I’ll make that a project.
Glennon Doyle:
If anyone has any podcasts about relaxing that sister could listen to at 1.5?
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah. I want your 10-minute meditation, but make it three.
Abby Wambach:
I have a follow-up question. Do you wear this as a badge of honor though? Truly.
Amanda Doyle:
I mean, probably, but I’m thinking I’m getting over that now. I think I feel over it.
Abby Wambach:
Your kids are also now at a certain age where you get to actually tap back into it. When the kids are young-
Glennon Doyle:
It’s hard, man.
Abby Wambach:
You can’t.
Amanda Doyle:
I’m looking forward to it. It is in the three-year plan for sure.
Abby Wambach:
Hold on. Here’s what I have to tell you. You can do this in three days. You can figure this out in three days if you feel like this is something that would benefit your life, I can give you a much longer list than we’re going to go through today of how to best optimize your relaxation one hour period at the end of the night.
Amanda Doyle:
I mean, Abby Wambach, I have 99 problems and a lack of a list is not one, okay?
Glennon Doyle:
That’s true.
Amanda Doyle:
I got a lot of lists. That’s why I don’t have a lot of circuit breaking.
Abby Wambach:
But there’s not a list of things that you can be doing to fucking relax and to enjoy life.
Glennon Doyle:
I think this is another pod.
Abby Wambach:
I’m so upset by this because there’s nobody on the planet that deserves it more than you and your sister. You work so hard, and we will always think that you are the most worker. You won it.
Glennon Doyle:
You won something.
Abby Wambach:
I’ll send you the medal. I will make a medal and I’ll send it to you.
Glennon Doyle:
And also P.S., it can’t just be forever that there’s so many lists that you can’t relax because there’s always going to be so many lists forever.
Amanda Doyle:
It’s true.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s not like you’re just about to run out lists.
Amanda Doyle:
It’s true. All right, come on. We’ll do this another time. Let’s go.
Glennon Doyle:
Enough with the psychology.
Amanda Doyle:
I’m not on trial here, people.
Glennon Doyle:
Let’s talk about what we are watching. Also, all of you type A perfectionists, overfunctioners, could you please help us with maybe some things that we could send to Sister for ideas? And if you could camouflage them as productive, just help us.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay, some things we’re watching, and we’re just going to go through a few things today because we actually watch a lot of shit. But Yellowjackets, we’re watching Yellowjackets. A lot of people are watching Yellowjackets. Now, first of all, what you need to know about Yellowjackets is it’s a good Venn diagram of Abby and I’s genres because it’s gross and scary and horrifying. So it’s in Abby’s genre, but it’s also kind of feminist. It’s like Lord of the Flies but girls.
Abby Wambach:
For a girl’s soccer team.
Glennon Doyle:
For a girl’s soccer team, which maybe that’s why they call it Yellowjackets as a nod to the flies, Lord of the Flies, they’re both insects. Maybe not. Okay, this what’s going to happen. I’m going to say things that are going to have nothing to do with anything, but they’re conclusions I’ve made from these shows.
Glennon Doyle:
Soccer team, high school, soccer team. They go to nationals on an airplane, airplane crashes on an island or I don’t know. I don’t know where the hell they are.
Abby Wambach:
And neither do they.
Glennon Doyle:
Neither do they. There’s the show. And it’s a group of girls and then a couple guys. It’s very strange and eerie and confusing. I would say it’s very confusing.
Abby Wambach:
It’s riddled with more questions than answers.
Glennon Doyle:
And I’ve almost given up on it a couple times because of the grossness and scariness. But it’s cool to me because it’s a bunch of girls together that are not in the male gaze at all. There’s no male gaze. So all of these girls together are just being fully human with each other. They’re just the subjects of the show.
Amanda Doyle:
Cool.
Glennon Doyle:
They’re not objects, and they are fully human with each other in ways that we don’t normally see women. Animalistic ways, fully human as animals almost. And they all have these fatal flaws, their personalities that are strengths. But you can see later, because we go into their middle-aged years, it’s back and forth from the island.
Amanda Doyle:
They’re still on the island?
Glennon Doyle:
They’re on the island as teenagers. It’s a flashback.
Amanda Doyle:
Oh, okay.
Glennon Doyle:
Half flashback.
Amanda Doyle:
They’re not middle-aged on the island.
Glennon Doyle:
No, that’d be awesome. But you see the connection between these terrifying bonds that they made with each other when it was the worst experience of their life, but maybe they were the most alive. And you see them not able to let go of that in their middle-age. And you see-
Amanda Doyle:
So it’s like about attachment theory?
Glennon Doyle:
It’s about attachment theory.
Amanda Doyle:
Jesus.
Abby Wambach:
But the juxtaposition between being in survival mode and that these young women are having to become, in some ways, animals to survive. I think it’s really such a beautiful story. And then you flash forward into their middle age and how they still have that in them.
Glennon Doyle:
And they’re still in survival mode. And it’s about we’re all in survival mode, all the time. And it’s girls together, and it’s like how we just love each other and hate each other and protect each other and kill each other and eat each other up. But it’s just-
Abby Wambach:
And how they have to play certain roles in their middle age, and you can see the internal conflict. So it’s like they had this opportunity to become really untamed in a crazy way.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Abby Wambach:
And then fast-forward to their middle age, and then they have to do this reverse taming, which-
Glennon Doyle:
And they can’t get away from each other. They hate each other, but can’t find meaning apart from each other.
Amanda Doyle:
They’re trauma bonded.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. Which is life, right? It’s just being a girl, being a woman. They’re trauma bonded by life. And Melanie Lynskey, she’s so freaking good in it. They’re all so good. And it’s very cool when you think about in a world of, all we want to do is take Buzzfeed quizzes and figure out who we are. Tish and Abby and I watch it together, we’re always talking about which ones, which tragic flaws in them most relate to us.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. That was a horrible question they posed to me the other day. Tish was like, “Who do you think I am? And who do you think mom is? Which character?” And I was like, this is a trick question. I don’t know how to answer this.
Glennon Doyle:
But we decided that you were a mixture of Van and Taissa because your beautiful, tragic, fatal flaw is loyalty and leadership. These beautiful things that can go either way, loyalty can save you or kill you. Leadership can save you or get you killed. All of these things.
Glennon Doyle:
And then Tish was Juliette Lewis. There’s this one character that just beats to her own drum the whole time and is like individualistic. Her name’s Natalie, Nat.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, Nat.
Glennon Doyle:
And she also has a very just constant, what the is going on vibe, where everyone else gets eased into this new reality and she’s like, “This is not normal.” And that’s Tish.
Glennon Doyle:
So Yellowjackets, check it out.
Abby Wambach:
Good.
Glennon Doyle:
Maybe. All right, Succession, we are watching, We have watched Succession religiously. We are into Succession, which is so weird because Succession is about this family that is based on both the Murdochs and the Fox News Empire and kind of King Lear.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s like a King Lear story of who’s going to take over this empire and this man who’s just this Murdoch Lear type, just ruthless, soulless, but it’s also very billionaire world and capitalism and what happens at the top. And on the surface it’s about wildly wealthy people. But if you were going to make an anti-capitalist commercial, you would make Succession because this family and world is so void of… It’s soulless and vapid and lack of love. It’s fascinating. I never know what’s going on because every minute, I’m like, “What’s happening now?” Because it’s all very businessy language, but I get the vibe. So I never know what’s happening, really. But I know how everyone’s feeling.
Glennon Doyle:
And there was the scene in the last one, spoil alert, all of this is a spoiler. Logan Roy, the dad, dies. And I think that this last episode of succession, which the pod squad will be hearing this behind, it should win awards because the whole show is based on sort of this controllers of the world.
Glennon Doyle:
They control the whole world. They think they control the whole world. Everything is black card, black card, jet to whatever making all these deals. Control, control, control kings of the world. And then Logan Roy dies just unceremoniously immediately. He’s on the floor of a plane and it is this scene where they’re up in the air, the dad has died, and the three kids who have spent this entire series just trying to get control, trying to get power, power, power control are rendered powerless. They’re trying to undo this death. There’s this scene where one of the kids is outside saying to the people on the plane, “No, no, no. This is not going to happen. Get me the pilot. I’m want to talk to the pilot.” And the dude’s like, “You can’t talk to the pilot. He’s flying the plane.”
Abby Wambach:
You can’t control death.
Glennon Doyle:
And it’s like this moment where capitalism and control and whiteness and power rendered completely impotent by death, by the ultimate truth. It’s just this proof of all of this shit is just rearranging chairs on the Titanic and the visualization of all of this fake power that is just absolutely powerless.
Glennon Doyle:
Abby and I are obsessed with documentaries too. Documentary makes me feel like it’s the best of all worlds because it’s reading a book together.
Abby Wambach:
It’s like TV 1.5.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. It feels like I’m making myself smarter. But I’m still just sitting here. So I watched a documentary recently that I want everybody to watch. I thought it was really wonderful. And it was called Calendar Girls. And it’s about this group of women who are probably in their sixties, seventies, eighties, who start a dance group.
Amanda Doyle:
Oh my God, yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Imagine a drill team from high school, like your drill team. They do choreography, they travel and perform at retirement homes and local fairs, and they are so serious about it and it’s so beautiful. And there’s this dynamic in it where the men in their lives, in some of their lives, can’t deal with it.
Amanda Doyle:
It’s too much. Their careers are taking them away?
Glennon Doyle:
Well, yes.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, from retirement.
Glennon Doyle:
But it’s sad and serious. On the surface it’s this adorable thing. And then deeper, it’s the story of what happens when women actually reclaim togetherness and power and joy and want to be the center, anyway, of their lives.
Abby Wambach:
And some of these women are retired, and so they’re in retirement with their husbands and their husbands are like, “I want you to be home with me taking care of me.” And they’re like-
Amanda Doyle:
Right, I thought we were going to be playing golf?
Glennon Doyle:
Exactly.
Abby Wambach:
They’re like, “I’ve been doing that my whole life. I need to have something for myself.” And it’s this beautiful awakening in some of these women that they’re finally doing this one thing that brings them alive.
Glennon Doyle:
And then the repercussions of women following their joy together.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, that’s cool.
Glennon Doyle:
And daring to have worlds without considering their partners, but also they wear unicorn horns and leg warmers and they’re on YouTube. They’re trying to figure out how to do their blue eyeshadow, so they’re watching teenagers do their makeup and they’re trying to figure it out. It’s really special.
Glennon Doyle:
I have spent my life telling difficult truths about who I am as a human, and I have talked about sex and drugs and-
Amanda Doyle:
Rock and roll?
Glennon Doyle:
Mm-hmm. But there is part of my life that I have not completely always been honest about. And now is when I’m going to reveal to you that I fucking love reality TV. And I know that you’re going to think less of me after you learn, and I just want you to know that’s okay with me-
Abby Wambach:
Why?
Glennon Doyle:
Because I am not trying to be perfect.
Abby Wambach:
That doesn’t mean you’re imperfect.
Glennon Doyle:
Trying to be honest.
Abby Wambach:
No, I don’t think it means you’re imperfect. You like what you fucking like.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, remember when I went on Bravo, remember when I went on the Andy Cohen show? I went on Watch What’s Happening Live because Braunwyn from the Real Housewives was coming out as queer and she needed my support as a housewife does every once in a while. And so I go on Andy Cohen’s show in support of Braunwyn and Andy Cohen, who made the Housewives, who produced The Housewives, who is the Housewives person, looks at me and says, “Why are you here?” And I said, “Well, I feel like you invited me here.” And he said, “No, no, no. I mean, you’re an activist, you’re a feminist. Gloria Steinem recently said that The Real Housewives is bad for women. Why are you here?” On air, he asked me this and I say to him, “Andy Cohen, I’m not saying I think the Real Housewives are good for women. I’m just saying I like it.” Okay?
Amanda Doyle:
I’m just letting the soft animal of my body, my body love what it loves.
Glennon Doyle:
Love what it loves, Andy Cohen. I don’t know. It’s WWE for Women. Okay? That’s what it is.
Amanda Doyle:
It is, in more ways than one.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, but there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s going to the bookstore and seeing the juicy novel that you’ve been wanting, but you’re afraid to pick it up because somebody’s going to judge you on it or looking and finding poetry and walking out. You have to consume stuff that makes you like yourself and like the life you have.
Glennon Doyle:
Baby, remember when I was trying to figure out what exactly lesbian sex was going to be like? So I used to have this book about sex, and then I’d be on the airplanes and I’d put the book about lesbian sex inside of Jane Eyre and read it. That’s what reality-
Abby Wambach:
That’s what I’m saying.
Amanda Doyle:
Same, same. Jane Eyre, if she had been alive a few more generations, same, same.
Glennon Doyle:
Totally. She was wishing she could have some lesbian sex by then, right? Okay. So what we have done is we have charged Sister with watching-
Abby Wambach:
Reality TV.
Glennon Doyle:
Reality TV, which please understand since she won’t even watch highbrow TV, highbrow TV is too low brow for her. Charging her with watching da, da, da, da, 90 day fiance.
Abby Wambach:
The Other Way.
Glennon Doyle:
I thought maybe it was going to be a bridge too far, 90 day fiance. What do you think, Sister? First of all, why don’t you give our listeners a quick synopsis of what 90 Day Fiance is about?
Amanda Doyle:
I watched two episodes of season four, which is The Other Way, which I have been able to surmise contextually from the subtitle that The Other Way refers to a reverse of the traditional process, which is US residents partnering up with, if we can call it that, it’s a stretch, partnering up with folks from other countries to get married, and then the people from the other countries come to America.
Amanda Doyle:
The Other Way is related to in all of the couples that we see here, the Americans are going to go live into the other countries. So that’s what’s happening there. So the 90 day refers to typically you get a 90 day visa, and so there is some, shall we say, urgency involved in the consummation of these relationships or else they will not be together.
Amanda Doyle:
A lot of these people found each other on the internets and or on travel to the other lands. They met these people, spent a couple days with them, came home, and now we meet them when they are about to return to the land. And most of them have a wedding date, which is a few days after they land, including some who have never actually met each other in person. This is what I spent three hours of my life watching yesterday.
Glennon Doyle:
So what is your take?
Amanda Doyle:
So in the light most favorable to everyone involved, some of them are irreconcilably batshit crazy, some of them I am genuinely worried and scared for. This is why I can’t watch reality TV because I cannot separate myself. I cannot say, “Oh, it’s just TV”, because Gabriel-
Glennon Doyle:
Gabriel, I love Gabriel.
Amanda Doyle:
I’m so Gabriel worried about Gabriel.
Abby Wambach:
I love Gabe.
Glennon Doyle:
I know, I know.
Amanda Doyle:
Also, I have some observations generally on things, but I think as a psychological observation without judging the individual people, except I will say, I’m going to judge you, Danielle, because that is not okay, what’s happening with you and Yohan.
Glennon Doyle:
Wait, which one’s Danielle?
Amanda Doyle:
It’s not okay.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, Danielle.
Amanda Doyle:
Dominican republic.
Glennon Doyle:
The curly blonde lady. She is horrifying.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my gosh.
Amanda Doyle:
I mean, Yohan’s not getting any credit himself. I’m just saying, what I have noticed is a few things. First of all, how incredibly hard it is to be family or loved ones of people and just let them live and make their choices, even their very, very-
Glennon Doyle:
Horrible choices.
Amanda Doyle:
Terrible choices. And there’s all these mothers or brothers, that sweet lady who is just really not, it’s not going going to go well for Jennifer, but her sweet brother and her sister-in-law and her mom. And then you’ve got the mom of the Alabama lady who just says, “A mother’s worry is…” And they’re just letting their people go out and really make terrible decisions. And I realized what reality TV is, it’s just a really blown up caricature of what everyone’s walking through because we’re all that’s going to watch-
Glennon Doyle:
That’s correct.
Amanda Doyle:
Our kids and our loved ones make foolish choices and we know they are, and we just have to let them, and that’s an untenable position to live through.
Abby Wambach:
But don’t you think it’s so fun to watch people make-
Glennon Doyle:
Terrible decisions.
Abby Wambach:
Wildly outrageous, I won’t even say terrible because we don’t know. We don’t know what’s right or wrong for them.
Amanda Doyle:
But we fucking know, Abby. We do know.
Abby Wambach:
I just don’t, haven’t seen the whole show. I’m still at the… I’m actually caught up to that season four.
Amanda Doyle:
I’m sure once you see the whole show, it’ll be crystal clear, Abby. Unless you’ve wrapped up with a little bow and everything will be fine.
Abby Wambach:
But what it makes me feel is grateful that other people are showing me that outrageousness is still possible.
Glennon Doyle:
She’s such a romantic, she believes.
Abby Wambach:
I just think it’s so cool.
Glennon Doyle:
She believes.
Amanda Doyle:
But here’s what it does for me. It’s so funny to me that these people think this is about love. It’s hilarious.
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
What it’s saying to me every time, and the people are saying it with their very words that come out of their mouth is that everyone on this show, what is driving them is that they want to go get a certain life. They know what it is.
Amanda Doyle:
My girl with Yohan, she just wants to live at the beach and be out of New York, but yet we don’t let ourselves go get the life we want unless it has this kind of an excuse of we are pursuing external love.
Glennon Doyle:
Interesting.
Amanda Doyle:
But what I want to say to Danielle is go live in the fucking Dominican Republic if that’s what you want. Why are you bringing Yohan into this thing? All he wants to do, which is what he stated, is live in New York. Okay? So why don’t you just go ahead and do that?
Amanda Doyle:
All Chris wants to do is live for herself for the first time. Why is she bringing sweet Jamie into this? I’m really worried about Jamie.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I like Jamie.
Amanda Doyle:
I just don’t understand why people aren’t just-
Glennon Doyle:
But what about Gabriel-
Amanda Doyle:
…going to get the life that they want?
Glennon Doyle:
That’s a really good point. But I feel like Gabe and Isabel are in love. I know, okay.
Amanda Doyle:
I know, I really hope so. They’re my favorite obviously.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, I love your take. I have never thought of that. Just go get the thing. Don’t say it’s about love. Say it’s about self-love and go do the thing.
Glennon Doyle:
I also feel like 90 Day fiance, which one of my smartest friends Yaba told me-
Abby Wambach:
I don’t know if she’s going to let us.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, we’ll have to run this by her.
Amanda Doyle:
She’s too erudite to admit this publicly.
Glennon Doyle:
90 Day Fiance is an anthropological research project.
Amanda Doyle:
Yes, it is.
Glennon Doyle:
It is. Because first of all, when you think about, we all are like, “Oh, that’s so crazy what they’re doing.” Every marriage is a little bit entering into a different culture except they’re doing it literally. And then they are stunned and shocked when the two cultures clash. For example, the fashion designer who wants to wear a bare midriff but then marries an Egyptian Muslim and is shocked by the culture in Egypt.
Amanda Doyle:
No, no, but he said before they got married, “What you will need to do is wear clothing that covers your entire body and that isn’t tight.”
Glennon Doyle:
And she’s a fashion designer.
Amanda Doyle:
And she went to fashion design school and all she wants is to wear vintage twenties-ey clothing. But this is what I mean. The other thing that it does is it just puts in huge highlight the idea that we are all so scared of talking about the things that we’re scared of, and we are all so scared of asking the questions that we don’t want the answers to precisely because we already know the answers.
Glennon Doyle:
The answers. That’s right.
Amanda Doyle:
So they’re all like, “Well, I don’t know. Have you talked to him about this?” Why hasn’t he told his family he’s engaged to you and going to be married on Tuesday to you?
Glennon Doyle:
Well, I just think it’s unclear.
Amanda Doyle:
It’s unclear to me, why haven’t you told him that he’s not going to go to New York, even though you told him he’s going to go to New York? “Well, I just think we’ll probably be able to work it out.”
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Amanda Doyle:
All of us have these things. They’re littler than that usually, but contrary to all of the evidence, we’re just like, “Well, if I don’t look in that little corner, it won’t come to roost.” There’s roosting people.
Abby Wambach:
Isn’t that the whole point of life though, is to keep putting yourself in experiences until you learn some of these lessons? I know I got re gifted lessons over and over and over again.
Glennon Doyle:
Re gifted lessons. That’s so good, babe.
Abby Wambach:
Until I actually learned them and I kept making the same fucking mistakes over and over again. And I feel like these are the kind of things, just because this might be an inevitable mistake doesn’t mean it’s bad for them. And also, we have to throw out there that maybe they just want to be on fucking TV.
Glennon Doyle:
Of course, and also it’s just the American propaganda of it, of the whole show is so crazy.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my gosh, people wanting to come and live in the US.
Glennon Doyle:
All the camera angles are like, we’re supposed to be mad at the culture that they’re going to and not the American, but it’s like, no, I’m always mad at the American.
Amanda Doyle:
Oh, God. I’m not mad at that at all. I’m so glad you didn’t make me watch the one where they’re coming to America, because that’s like, I don’t even think in good conscience I could talk about that.
Glennon Doyle:
I don’t think you’re going to be the type of person, Sister who’s going to stick with these reality shows, so we’re just going to have you pop in and pop out, okay? I’m not going to take you to The Housewives yet. Also loves, oh, the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is coming back.
Amanda Doyle:
Oh God, I love her.
Glennon Doyle:
Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
Amanda Doyle:
I actually did watch that show.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh my God. That’s one of our favorite visual experience. And also just precious is Daisy Jones and the Six.
Abby Wambach:
Oh, thank God for Daisy Jones.
Glennon Doyle:
Taylor Jenkins Reid wrote Daisy Jones in the Six, and we’re watching that with Tish, and it’s just precious. I love it because it reminds me so much of Almost Famous, which is one of my all-time favorite movies, and Riley Keough is just fantastic in it, and I can’t get over all of the swishy, swishy, swishy Fleetwood Mac-ey outfits.
Abby Wambach:
Oh, the outfits are so good.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh my God.
Abby Wambach:
I just love any show that has musicians and the backstage, how the whole rockstar world is. I love those shows.
Glennon Doyle:
I know. It makes me feel cool. Check it out, and next time we’ll talk about all of your zombie shows, okay? I’m so sorry we didn’t get to that.
Amanda Doyle:
I have some reality shows to offer to people.
Abby Wambach:
Oh yeah, tell us.
Glennon Doyle:
What?
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah. I would like to ask people to check out the new reality show called Senator Machaela Cavanaugh’s seven week filibuster in the Nebraska State Senate.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
Amanda Doyle:
It is fascinating. I just don’t understand why we need other reality TV when we have things as exciting as that. My girl, Machaela has for seven life long weeks, stood there filibustering, not letting the Nebraska legislature pass any bill because she is opposing the bill that would take away gender affirming care in her state. Seven weeks.
Amanda Doyle:
She has strep throat. She’s been standing up there. She’s just been talking about her favorite salads, talking about everything just to keep the state senate. And she said, if this legislator decides that legislating and hate against children is our priority, then I’m going to make it painful for everyone. And she said, I will burn this to the ground, and she’s not stopping. Also, she is a Catholic, and she says that it’s her Lenten penance and she’s doing God’s work by standing up there and doing that every day.
Abby Wambach:
How much longer will she have to do that?
Amanda Doyle:
Well, they break for session in June.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my God.
Amanda Doyle:
So we’ll see.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s going to be like 90 day Fiance, but 90 day Congressperson.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah, I mean she’s a total badass.
Glennon Doyle:
Filibuster. Now, if we could just have that reality show. So she could be filibustering and then we could have a little confessional where she’s talking about how she feels about filibustering and then she could go back. It could be so good.
Amanda Doyle:
Also on the podcast recommendation on the issues with Michelle Goodwin, brilliant. People should check that out. It’s 15 minutes of feminism in little chunks. It completely contextualizes it in terms of current conversations, but it’s from a historical, political context. You don’t need to know anything about history of feminism. She really situates what’s happening right now within historical framework. It’s brilliant.
Glennon Doyle:
Love.
Amanda Doyle:
Kids’ podcasts, American History Storytellers. It’s a Wondery Plus podcast and it’s basically American history, but accurately, and they do like all these four part series on how Hawai’i became enlisted to be a state, women’s suffrage, Tulsa race massacre, all the stuff where your kids can actually get the real history.
Glennon Doyle:
Awesome, okay. You all, I hope you have some good options here, choices. What are we supposed to watch tonight? What are we supposed to listen to today? You’ve got some choices. We mentioned Lessons in Chemistry. I also just finished, I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca McKay. So flipping good. All right, we love ya. Tell us what you’re watching.
Abby Wambach:
Can we start a We Can Do Hard Things pod squad TV book list?
Glennon Doyle:
Wouldn’t that be great? So that we can always know what’s next and we don’t have to stare at each other. All right. Tell us what to watch. We love you.
Amanda Doyle:
And what to listen to.
Glennon Doyle:
And what to listen to and what to read.
Amanda Doyle:
What music.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay, all the things.
Amanda Doyle:
Besides Taylor we got nothing else. Taylor and Brandy. That’s the whole playlist, folks.
Glennon Doyle:
Indigo Girls. Bye.
Glennon Doyle:
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Glennon Doyle:
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