Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne
18 Augus, 2022
Glennon Doyle:
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. This is a really exciting day because we have a double date happening today.
Abby Wambach:
So exciting.
Glennon Doyle:
And that double date is with Stephanie Allynne and Tig Notaro. For real that’s happening. Stephanie is a writer, actor, producer and director. Her acting credits include The L Word: Generation Q, One Mississippi, Room 104, Dream Corp LLC, Love, and Twin Peaks. She also starred in the Sundance hits People Places Things, and Lake Bell’s In a World. Lots happened because of that one. Stephanie is currently set to write and direct the feature film Time and Space that will star Tig Notaro. Well, I wonder how she got that role. She will produce alongside Notaro and Judd Apatow.
Glennon Doyle:
Tig Notaro is an Emmy and Grammy nominated standup comedian, writer, and actor. Rolling Stone named her one of the 50 best standup comics of all time. Notaro appears in Army of the Dead and Star Trek Discovery. And Star Trek Discovery? Lots of different other worldly things going on.
Abby Wambach:
Well, she is other worldly.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. Wrote and starred in the groundbreaking TV show One Mississippi and recently released her second HBO standup special, Tig Notaro: Drawn. Co-directed with wife, Stephanie, the feature film Am I OK? She hosts the advice podcast Don’t Ask Tig, I’ve been on that. And co-hosts the documentary film podcast Tig and Cheryl: True Story. And Tig and Stephanie live in LA with their sons Max and Finn and their cat Fluff. Hi.
Abby Wambach:
Hi.
Tig Notaro:
We didn’t know that our bios were going to be read.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, that’s what you do at dates. You’ve never done that at double dates? You have our bios, right?
Tig Notaro:
Always.
Glennon Doyle:
So now you go.
Tig Notaro:
We travel with your bios.
Stephanie Allynne:
Our nighttime reading.
Tig Notaro:
I want to make an adjustment. We have three cats. We have an-
Stephanie Allynne:
We acquired two new ones.
Tig Notaro:
…the two that you left out are actually in Stephanie’s office with us-
Abby Wambach:
Right now.
Tig Notaro:
…and luckily they didn’t hear it-
Abby Wambach:
Oh shoot.
Tig Notaro:
…because we have our headphones on.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. And their names are?
Tig Notaro:
Skip and Linus.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. And are they also producers and directors?
Tig Notaro:
Yes. They work at Judd Apatow’s production company.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Tig Notaro:
That’s how we met them.
Abby Wambach:
Got it.
Tig Notaro:
Okay.
Stephanie Allynne:
They were assistants.
Tig Notaro:
They were assistants and we asked them if they wanted to live with two mothers and-
Glennon Doyle:
Of course they did.
Tig Notaro:
…they meowed, which we interpreted as yes.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Could have been no. Could have been hell no.
Abby Wambach:
Stephanie and Tig speak cat. That’s good.
Tig Notaro:
We do.
Glennon Doyle:
Well we’re so excited. Really grateful for this double date too.
Stephanie Allynne:
We are so excited to be on.
Tig Notaro:
Well, I met both of you through Don’t Ask Tig, but do we pretend like that didn’t happen?
Glennon Doyle:
No. We do. We talk about that. Yeah, that was a great hour together. Did you do Don’t Ask Tig too?
Tig Notaro:
She was setting up the…
Abby Wambach:
I was helping the tech check.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, right, right, right, right, right.
Abby Wambach:
You don’t remember anything that I do for you.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, I remember Tig.
Abby Wambach:
This is what long term marriage is like.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, well…
Abby Wambach:
Just…
Glennon Doyle:
Speaking of marriage-
Tig Notaro:
Or just long-term life. The memory goes and I’m not saying you’re elderly, but I have a lot of memory problems.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah.
Stephanie Allynne:
So do I.
Glennon Doyle:
I will tell you that sometimes I don’t know exactly whether what you’re saying is real or funny because before we jumped on, my sister was on and we were laughing so hard because two years ago, Tig and I were emailing back and forth to plan this freaking double date, okay? Two years ago. I tried to schedule and then you emailed back and the email started with Jesus Christ, Glenn. This double date attempt has turned into a real full blown pandemic nightmare at this point. However, we are-
Abby Wambach:
Are you reading it?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. I found it.
Tig Notaro:
Oh no.
Glennon Doyle:
However, we are around for rescheduling. I must warn you though, I will be starring in a major motion zombie flick. After that it’s highly likely I will become too big of a deal for these types of friendships. I was like, I don’t know if she’s serious. I called my sister. I was like, is she hilarious or mean, and I knew you were hilarious, but I didn’t know if you were hilarious and also mean, so I crafted an email back to you that could have worked either way, whether you were joking or whether you really were mad at me. And does this happen? Does this happen to you ever or are you…?
Stephanie Allynne:
Constantly.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah, it’s terrible. And I apologize, but I don’t, but I do.
Stephanie Allynne:
Well it’s because it happens not just through email, also just her delivery. There’s no change in inflection or facial movement. So people are just kind of staring like, really? And then I’ll be like-
Tig Notaro:
Well the other night we had dinner with a group of people, I will not drop names but you’d be impressed with who was there.
Glennon Doyle:
Was it Taylor Dayne?
Tig Notaro:
Yes. And no, beforehand there was an email chain of, hey, can everyone get tested? And everyone was chiming in and I just wrote, no.
Glennon Doyle:
See? What are you supposed to do with that?
Tig Notaro:
I don’t know.
Stephanie Allynne:
I’m always like, of course she’s kidding. And then there’s all this follow up of, do you guys not want to get tested? Is there a problem? You’re like, oh my God, no, we’re totally, of course.
Tig Notaro:
See, I walk away thinking, of course they know I’m kidding, but why would I do that to somebody? Why would I not test? Why would I not have a double date? Why?
Stephanie Allynne:
This is similar to how we sort of got together officially.
Tig Notaro:
Right. And actually this got me married to-
Stephanie Allynne:
This humor works for me. So this was actually almost 10 years ago at this point. So we had been in this movie together in a world and we were dating, hanging out, sorry, hanging out after.
Glennon Doyle:
Hanging out. Yeah. Okay.
Stephanie Allynne:
And I was like, I’m straight, but oh my God, you’re so funny. And then we-
Abby Wambach:
You’re so funny.
Stephanie Allynne:
…and I’m so straight.
Tig Notaro:
Guys, some people think I’m funny.
Abby Wambach:
And I’m so straight.
Tig Notaro:
Some people think I’m funny.
Stephanie Allynne:
I really thought you were funny.
Tig Notaro:
Look, not for everyone, that’s fine. You can’t be for everyone.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. That’s right.
Stephanie Allynne:
Okay. So, we were hanging out and at one point we kissed, it was actually Valentine’s day. Let me get to the part where it’s this humor. And so-
Tig Notaro:
We didn’t kiss because it was Valentine’s Day.
Stephanie Allynne:
We were hanging out, we kiss, we have a great night. And then I got home and I’m like, oh my God, what have I done? I’m straight. This is crazy. I don’t want to lead her on or whatever. So I wake up in the morning and I write the longest email.
Tig Notaro:
Pages, pages.
Stephanie Allynne:
That’s just-
Tig Notaro:
Pages.
Stephanie Allynne:
…I just think the world of you. I love hanging out with you. I think you’re so funny. I had a great time last night.
Tig Notaro:
On and on.
Stephanie Allynne:
I don’t regret anything. It’s like our bios. You’re just the greatest, I’m just so unfortunately straight. Otherwise this would be amazing.
Abby Wambach:
Friend zone email.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah, and I reread it. I’m like, okay, perfect, send it. Seconds later she replies and it says, okay dyke. And I was like, oh no, I really like her.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, that’s good.
Abby Wambach:
That’s really good.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s really good.
Stephanie Allynne:
Well, I didn’t even know what to do because we have so much fun together and we kiss so naturally. And I just thought, what does all of this mean?
Glennon Doyle:
Thou doth protest too much, Stephanie. Well, I know that Tig gets bored with the whole sexuality conversation. I’ve heard you say that’s boring, but it’s not boring to me because I’m brand new here. So I want to hear this.
Tig Notaro:
Where did I say that?
Stephanie Allynne:
That’s was probably a joke.
Glennon Doyle:
Somewhere. I read it. You just said if you think it’s boring, I don’t know if you’re serious or not Tig.
Stephanie Allynne:
No, you’ve said that.
Tig Notaro:
No, I’ve just been dabbling for longer than you.
Abby Wambach:
Yep.
Glennon Doyle:
Abby feels the same way.
Tig Notaro:
And so I’m just like, yeah, but I’m not discounting your need to talk about it or Stephanie. Because Stephanie, she can talk about it for-
Glennon Doyle:
Right?
Tig Notaro:
She could write you pages of an email.
Glennon Doyle:
Pages.
Abby Wambach:
Pages, yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, you know when people are new to AA or new to CrossFit or new to veganism and they can’t stop talking about it?
Stephanie Allynne:
New to gay.
Glennon Doyle:
We’re new.
Tig Notaro:
I don’t do CrossFit, but I’ll talk your face off about plant-based foods.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh Jesus. So then I’m not even going to worry about this. About boring you.
Tig Notaro:
I got my plant-based nutrition certification during-
Glennon Doyle:
You didn’t.
Tig Notaro:
…the pandemic. I did. Yes I did. Yes I did. And you should’ve added that in my bio.
Glennon Doyle:
If you let me ask a question about sexuality, then I will listen to you talk about plants. Okay? Okay, this is how friendship works. It’s a give and take. So, Stephanie.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
What the hell? So you’re straight and you really believe you’re straight your whole life?
Tig Notaro:
Let me interrupt here.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. Okay. She’s a big dyke.
Tig Notaro:
And then she can talk about her sexuality and answer this question. But let’s talk about the other side of things of how many boyfriends you had.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wambach:
Oh, this is interesting.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, sorry.
Stephanie Allynne:
Well, I’ve had a lot of boyfriends that I was not in long-term relationships with.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wambach:
Got it.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Abby Wambach:
And you played basketball?
Tig Notaro:
Thank you, Abby.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s-
Stephanie Allynne:
And softball.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my God, the two gayest.
Tig Notaro:
You can’t play the sports and not be slightly interested in women.
Abby Wambach:
The two gayest.
Glennon Doyle:
I did notice that part of the documentary, the basketball, I did even notice that. Even my gaydar was up and I have the worst gaydar on earth because I didn’t even know I, myself, was gay.
Abby Wambach:
I died laughing because I was like Tig Notaro’s going to watch her friend’s basketball game.
Stephanie Allynne:
And I’m like, I’m so straight.
Tig Notaro:
Go team.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah that was impressive. Because I’ve read you say that you didn’t feel like you were hiding something from yourself.
Stephanie Allynne:
No. I mean, truly did not know. Young teenager, early twenties never had a feeling I was, never had an attraction, completely thought I was straight. And then I would date guys where I’m like, they’re cool, they’re interesting. It was anybody I thought was a little interesting to talk to, I was like, I guess I like him. And then the relationship would start and they would obviously want it to grow and I’d be like, this is casual, this has to stay. And then we’d have a date and I’d be like, I’m unavailable for a week. So I’ll see you next Thursday. And I wanted them out immediately in the morning. I’m like, get out. They would want to have breakfast and I’m like, no, no, no intimacy. I would roll over, grab my phone, and pretend it beeped and be like, oh no, I have an audition.
Glennon Doyle:
Do you wish that you had figured it out early so that you could have been dating women that whole time?
Stephanie Allynne:
Yes. Yeah. I look back on that and I’m like, oh my God, what I was missing.
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Stephanie Allynne:
And had no clue.
Abby Wambach:
But you got it now because Glennon’s like, I wish that I knew earlier and I’m like, ugh.
Glennon Doyle:
I know that bothers you when I say that.
Abby Wambach:
Well, because I’m like, well you can’t go back in time, number one. Number two, that just means you’d be sleeping with so many more women. I’m not into that.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. Well this is something we’re working this out in real time. So were you, Tig, worried? Because Abby’s friends all told her do not get serious with this woman, she’s just going to pretend she’s gay for a minute and then she’s going to go back to men.
Abby Wambach:
Well, you were also married with three children.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s true. I was also married with three children.
Abby Wambach:
So, slightly different.
Glennon Doyle:
Which was another little-
Tig Notaro:
See Stephanie was single with a roommate and it felt more… I didn’t really hear that, no. But I imagine people might have thought that. I’ve dated so many people that are interesting or beautiful, smart, funny, all these things and I talk about the inflection where I would say, oh yeah, it’s good, things are good. Yeah, we’ll see how it goes, she’s cool. And my voice would be up there. And then when I met Stephanie, I noticed I was talking from this really honest place that was right here where I would say, I like her so much, she is the greatest. Oh my gosh, she’s so funny. And I noticed I was not talking from that place. I was always like, we’ll see or this is… And then I went, oh my gosh. And-
Abby Wambach:
That’s good.
Tig Notaro:
What’s that?
Glennon Doyle:
It’s really cool.
Tig Notaro:
Oh.
Glennon Doyle:
You didn’t even need that extra comment from me, I’m sorry. I should have kept that.
Abby Wambach:
We interrupted.
Glennon Doyle:
Go ahead.
Tig Notaro:
What I heard was, it’s tootle. And so I thought, well, let me just check in and see what tootle means. But anyway, so when I noticed I was speaking from that place, I imagine I was talking to everybody from that place about her. And I don’t know, maybe that’s what it is. That’s what I’m chalking it up to is maybe my friends were like, oh, this is not a situation where Tig’s…
Glennon Doyle:
What did you have?
Stephanie Allynne:
Just people being, but you’re not gay. Just a vibe of like, it’s going to run its course. And it wasn’t being received in a way of like, oh, you’re in love. Nobody was discouraging, I could just sense a vibe.
Tig Notaro:
But you also had that vibe of people going, wow, I’ve never heard you talk about somebody.
Stephanie Allynne:
Oh yeah. And at the same time that.
Glennon Doyle:
You said, I think I realized I was actually gay a few years ago after we were married and after we had kids.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
So what was that-
Tig Notaro:
Which means…
Abby Wambach:
What were you doing for those two years?
Tig Notaro:
What were you thinking about or pursuing?
Stephanie Allynne:
I mean, I really feel that way though and it blows my mind because when we got together, we were so in love and just have always been in love. That was the thing. It’s like, I’m in love with Tig and Tig’s a woman. And I think I went more in the direction of, oh my God, labels are so dumb and you can fall in love with anyone. It took time and my own allowing myself to process of like, oh, I actually don’t, I’m not attracted to men. And I don’t think I could ever be in love with a man. And oh, that means I actually am gay and I missed this whole part of myself, which blows my mind.
Stephanie Allynne:
And then I had to go, so what am I attracted to? What is my sexuality? And what is my sexuality completely separate from Tig? And that, when you’re married with kids, to go through that I felt like it was very hard because it had nothing to do with our relationship. It’s like, of course this is still strong and of course I’m still in love, but I need to figure this piece out because I want to know it about myself. I want to understand it.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah and it’s a scary place, it’s tricky because you’re already married and so it’s done. I mean, I remember in an early interview, I said on the record the words, Abby is my sexuality. That’s written down. I was having this conversation with a friend and she was like, so were you gay before? What the hell Glennon? ‘Cause she’s known me forever and I said, well, I don’t know, I mean, there’s always been some things, but well, I’ve always thought that guys’ bodies were kind of gross and women’s bodies were beautiful, but everybody thinks that. And she was like, no, Glennon, everyone doesn’t think that. Like, what?
Tig Notaro:
I know.
Glennon Doyle:
People like men’s bodies? She said yes, they do.
Stephanie Allynne:
And you want that.
Tig Notaro:
See, I don’t even think men’s bodies are gross.
Glennon Doyle:
Neither does Abby.
Abby Wambach:
Me neither.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah.
Stephanie Allynne:
I do.
Abby Wambach:
I know we joke about sexuality, Tig and Abby sexuality, but the truth is that I think it’s really awesome Tig that you can hold the space for Stephanie to be able to do that. Not many partners are confident enough in the love and the marriage to be able to do that.
Glennon Doyle:
We can’t talk like that. We don’t talk like that, this is the first time we’ve talked like that.
Abby Wambach:
I mean, that’s not-
Glennon Doyle:
Pretty much.
Abby Wambach:
That’s not a hundred percent true.
Glennon Doyle:
A little bit.
Abby Wambach:
Listen, you sat down at a table one day and you said we are not standing up from this table until we figure out what I am.
Glennon Doyle:
‘Cause people kept asking me.
Abby Wambach:
And I was like, all right. Let’s figure it out. I mean, I know we’re married, so…
Glennon Doyle:
It’s hard to figure out after you’re married. It really is. I mean Stephanie said, and then I closed a door early and so I never, ever got to discover what was behind it.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Tig Notaro:
I am human. And it’s not just easy street knowing that there’s any…
Abby Wambach:
Regret or something?
Tig Notaro:
Gosh, I hope it’s not regret. I don’t even know. It’s more terrifying, I think, if people are holding these secrets or thoughts, that’s when things get rough. And as rough as the conversations are or exploration or thoughts, I think it’s easier to get through than being confined with those private thoughts or concerns. And I assumed that if we were together that no matter if it was a woman, a man, a tree, a non-binary person, trans, whoever it was that Stephanie, or even myself, that anybody could potentially think, oh, is that person attractive? Or how do I feel about this? I know that Stephanie is a human being and so it’s complex. But I also know so deeply that we love each other so much and we enjoy each other and we have so much together. We also have a lot of problems and issues. But because we’re alive and we’re together, but I want to have those problems and issues with Stephanie.
Stephanie Allynne:
And I think what was fascinating about that discovery at the time in which it was, it almost was harder because we were so in love and because I was so in love. It’s like, well, I don’t want to do anything that would weaken that intensity of that love by me exploring or thinking about this side of myself. And what ended up happening when we worked through that was just how much our love got stronger and being able to go, oh, this is how I feel, this is who I am, now you know that, now we’ve talked about it. It changed so much. And I think in a weird way, not knowing I was gay, I had sort of heteronormative ways that just were the way I saw things. And then in this relationship, even though I’m now in a gay relationship, I was still going about things in a heteronormative way.
Glennon Doyle:
Like what? Give me an example, because same. Same. I was like, I need to know, I want to be all gay and everything, but I also need to know who’s getting the fucking bugs because it’s not going to be me and I’m not carrying the trash out. I need some heteronormativity in my lesbian relationship.
Tig Notaro:
That is hilarious.
Stephanie Allynne:
And just sort that feeling of, I think a power dynamic or who defers to who or how does something, what does that mean if you do this and I do that.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah. I for sure had a big growth spurt in this relationship because we have a 15 year difference between us and when we got together, well, I don’t mean to sound like a mathematician, but we were much younger. And even though I’d been in relationships, I was essentially single in the way that I wasn’t married and the way I handled money or my house or whatever it was, my time, I was calling the shots. And then when Stephanie and I got together, I feel silly saying again, she was much younger, but-
Stephanie Allynne:
We met when I was 25.
Abby Wambach:
Wow.
Tig Notaro:
And so time went on and she was like, listen, I’m older, I have my career now. I have my money. I have all these things and I know people will probably hear this and say, well, of course you’re separate people and of course. Fine, I’m telling you, I was for sure calling the shots of the house and where the money was going to be spent. And I had to look at myself and go, right, we’re married. We’re together. This is our house. This is our money.
Stephanie Allynne:
I was like, oh, she’s all set up. She’s got all her stuff going on. It wasn’t like I was this passive person. I was just like, oh yeah, buy whatever you want, get whatever you want. And we’re in love. It was natural. I didn’t even think about it. And then later in this discovery, it was like, what does that mean if you do that? And that feels weird for me. And now, I don’t like myself in this and I’m so uncomfortable because it goes against everything I actually believe in. And then I’m like, and by the way, I don’t think I’ve told you everything I believe in. Let me introduce my new self to you. It’s all different.
Tig Notaro:
And that’s when it became Towanda.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah. Like, you’re going to have to be with a brand new person.
Tig Notaro:
But that’s all so exciting because I’m a brand new person and we continue to each become brand new people and that’s great.
Stephanie Allynne:
Towanda.
Tig Notaro:
But there was a huge Towanda moment. And by the way, I am mid-Towanda myself. I just told my therapist that the other day, because I was like, I think I’m starting to Towanda.
Glennon Doyle:
How? I must know. How is Towanda manifesting?
Stephanie Allynne:
You’re starting to Towanda.
Abby Wambach:
Can somebody explain Towanda to me?
Glennon Doyle:
Oh babe.
Abby Wambach:
Sorry.
Tig Notaro:
Well, it’s very gay. I’m surprised you don’t know, but on Fried Green Tomatoes, when Kathy- did you see that? Of course you didn’t.
Abby Wambach:
I never saw it.
Glennon Doyle:
We’ll watch it this afternoon. I’m sorry.
Abby Wambach:
I never saw it.
Tig Notaro:
You never saw it. Well, Kathy Bates, how would you describe Towanda?
Stephanie Allynne:
She’s in a very terrible marriage and she’s sick of it. And she’s getting inspiration-
Tig Notaro:
By the way, you weren’t in a terrible marriage.
Stephanie Allynne:
You said Towanda.
Tig Notaro:
I know, but I was joking because you were like, you have to watch the movie.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Stephanie Allynne:
Basically her claiming herself and she’s just kind of like, fuck it. I’m going to do whatever I want.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s her inner goddamn cheetah-
Abby Wambach:
Got it.
Glennon Doyle:
…comes out. She’s like slams the car into this jackass who’s just parked wrong, Towanda. She shows up for her life and she’s pissed off.
Tig Notaro:
I’m Towanda-ing right now. I’m realizing, well, I mean, I don’t know if I need to go into all of the Towanda-ing that’s going on.
Glennon Doyle:
I think you do. Just what’s happening.
Tig Notaro:
Well, I mean, on a very serious note, I’ve had a lot of unsettling things happen in the past few years and I’ve lost a lot of grounding people. Well, I mean, it’s unearthing to have my spouse go Towanda-ing. And then I had this guy that cut my hair for 16 years, in my house, pass away two days before the pandemic. And then the pandemic is unsettling. My manager of forever got out of the business and my stepfather passed away on the anniversary of my mother 10 years later. I’ve just felt a little like, what’s happening? And the ground underneath me is a little unsteady. And so it’s made me look around like, what’s your role? What do you do? Do you make sense in my life? I need to feel secure right now. I really need to feel secure. And in that I felt like when something doesn’t feel right, and I’m very confrontational in if I need something or want I’m very forward, but it’s-
Abby Wambach:
Towanda-ing.
Tig Notaro:
It’s Towanda-ing where I’m like, this does not work for me in a way that I have not been. Before, as much as I do the jokes of no I won’t test or whatever that email I sent you, which I don’t even remember sending, but it sounds like me or the okay dyke moment. I have this other side of me where I do think I am a nice person and I want things to be okay and nice with people. But right now I’m going through a place of Towanda-ing.
Glennon Doyle:
And how do people react to your Towanda-ing? Because I always feel that the after moment is… It’s not even the Towanda-ing that’s hard, that feels good, then it’s waiting for other people’s reaction to your Towanda-ing that makes you be like, oh nevermind. No worries.
Tig Notaro:
No, I’ve just gotten very seriously firm about things or I’ve raised my voice in a way that I don’t normally. My agent of 15 years ran into Stephanie at a party and he, he was on a call with me where I was just very firm about something and he was like, I’ve never heard Tig like that before.
Stephanie Allynne:
And I’m like, yeah, I overheard that. I’m like, me either.
Glennon Doyle:
Wow. So how do you feel about Towanda Tig?
Tig Notaro:
Stephanie?
Stephanie Allynne:
I love it. I feel like we’re both in a place of like, oh, this is what we value, this is what we like. I mean, not necessarily, I don’t think we go about it the same way, but just that where you’re going, this is really how I feel, this is really how I see it. And I don’t want my life to not be that. And so if I keep nodding along or keeping it in or just going, oh, I guess that’s how it goes, then your life is that.
Abby Wambach:
And then we’re-
Glennon Doyle:
That’s right. That’s right.
Abby Wambach:
I think we’re at an inflection point too in the way that women work, women in business. I have spent my whole fucking life just being like, yes, sure I’ll do that.
Glennon Doyle:
So grateful for the opportunity.
Abby Wambach:
Thank you so much. And it’s half of what I probably could be earning. And recently, I mean, it took this one because she’s just stronger than me in terms of holding her boundary, her line for what she believes she’s worth.
Tig Notaro:
And physically.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, of course. I mean, look at her.
Glennon Doyle:
But we think it’s because-
Abby Wambach:
She towers over me.
Glennon Doyle:
We think it’s because I lived my whole life as a straight, white, Christian, middle class. I was the most entitled of the entitled my whole life. I just got to a marginalized group. So when people mistreat me, I’m like, what the fuck? I’m like, we call me Queer-en. Cause it’s like…
Abby Wambach:
The queer Karen.
Glennon Doyle:
But really like she-
Stephanie Allynne:
Oh my God.
Glennon Doyle:
But it’s been interesting because she felt bad about it for a while because she was like, why are you always the one that speaks up? But it’s because she was in these situations for her whole life when the risk was much higher. So that, Towanda-ing, I think, comes because I was more used to being entitled.
Abby Wambach:
I think a lot of us are in a Towanda-ing right now. It’s good.
Tig Notaro:
I am so deeply in it-
Abby Wambach:
I love it.
Tig Notaro:
…and there is the aftermath of, and I don’t know if this is exactly what you’re talking about, but there is the aftermath of people being stunned at our production company, our creative executive, who used to be our assistant years ago. He’s worked with us forever now. But I was talking to him about it and he said, you don’t have to apologize. Or he said, those are real emotions and feelings and although I know that it was nice to hear it because just the circus I’m finished with, I’m very finished with the circus.
Stephanie Allynne:
And it is nice when men and women are both like, yeah, that’s cool. And you know what? I actually liked that because I do think it’s that thing with women where if you tell a woman to do something and she just says, no, it’s like, wow, she’s difficult. Whoa, she’s crazy. What a bitch. And you see a guy going, no, I’m not doing that and they’re like, he’s so smart. Oh my God, he’s so strong.
Tig Notaro:
Knows what he wants.
Stephanie Allynne:
I love that guy. And I feel like I’ve noticed with women now, even other actors or I’m like, I love that you’re just like, no.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s the best. It’s so freeing when somebody else does it.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
You’re like, oh, I can do that.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. It’s an invitation to all the other marginal-
Tig Notaro:
But there’s also plenty of people that are on ego trips and power trips that-
Stephanie Allynne:
Also do it.
Tig Notaro:
…that do it that are not what I’m talking about.
Glennon Doyle:
Exactly.
Tig Notaro:
And I’m not talking about the power, ego, tripping people that do this. That’s a whole different thing. I’m talking about just really getting in tune with what you want. I am so obsessed with the things that I don’t want too, meaning I love learning, I don’t want this. I don’t want this in my life. I don’t want this. And I love that when it rears its head, as much as I find something like Stephanie, where I’m like, I want this, this is what I will work and live for and this is that side of it. And then there’s this where I’m like, oh, am I thrilled that I know that I don’t want that. I do not want that.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Tig Notaro:
And it all feeds into Towanda.
Glennon Doyle:
What’s an example for each of you of something you’ve discovered that is I don’t want that?
Stephanie Allynne:
Well, I know mine is totally linked to the coming into my sexuality because a friend of mine who is married to a man, who identifies as queer, and I’m like, so what does that mean, queer? Because queer I never quite, I’m like, am I queer? Can I say I’m queer like, are we all queer? And she was like, queer is just other, so queer is anything other than the heteronormative patriarchal paradigm. And so she’s like, I want to be other in my writing, I want to be other in my parenting. I want to be other in my relationship, whatever it is. I don’t want that. I want other. And I feel like I’m like, ugh, that’s what I want. I don’t want the way this goes. I don’t want, we’re falling into roles, we’re playing this out. I want to know in every moment what I’m actually feeling, what I actually think, and then that is my reality.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes. Queer is like, they give you a menu and instead of choosing, you just return the menu.
Stephanie Allynne:
I’ll have everything.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. You’re just, I defer choice. I think about that all the time in terms of faith, all of it. Like queer faith or gender, queer art, queer relationships, all of it. So good. What about you Tig? What do you not want? Not this.
Tig Notaro:
There’s so many things, creative things and people in the creative world that I have had too much patience for. And there’s a lot of creative stuff that I’ve been open to because I do think it’s important to try new things out, but there’s so much creative that I’ve learned that’s not for me and I don’t want to spend my time doing that. And there are people that I am okay with. I’m not looking for a battle with them, but they’re not for me. And I’m okay with cutting that loose and being friendly, perfectly friendly when I see them. But they’re not for me. And I’m not interested in the world that surrounds them. And I’m good with that. And I just want to be comfortable. I want to be safe and comfortable and healthy.
Glennon Doyle:
I feel that, I feel all of that. Queer, comfortable, safe.
Abby Wambach:
Glennon, what don’t you want?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes please.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah. What do you guys not want?
Glennon Doyle:
Well, I think I have found, we go to a get together with people and they’re all talking about climbing this hamster wheel more and more. I don’t want to have a life where I’m constantly thinking that happiness or success is one great project or deal or connection away. I’m obsessed right now with figuring out what is enough and just stopping. There’s this frantic climb to nowhere and I never-
Tig Notaro:
Well you’re climbing to hell. It’s not to nowhere. You’re absolutely climbing to hell because people are so blinded by fame, fortune, power. When it gets into the right hands, you have incredible people. And then when that gets into the wrong hands, it is astounding. The monsters that, and people will say, does it frustrate you when you hear that she or they or whoever is getting. And I’m like, no, keep feeding that monster. Let them have it all. Let them have it all.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
It would be one thing if you could see anything that looked like joy or peace or happiness on that side. ‘Cause I am always looking at for that. A particular table we were at recently and everybody was just talking about what’s next and what’s bigger and who’s doing what I said, well, how do you know when you’ve done it? How do you know when you’ve done the thing? And then also, are you happy? And it was like, well, we’re not talking about that.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
I don’t know.
Stephanie Allynne:
It’s like that feeling too, I mean, especially in the arts or entertainment. You’re doing the thing you love. You’re the person that has got to do the thing they love. And so isn’t that amazing? And isn’t it amazing that we’re all here doing this really fun thing with each other? Trying to get everybody on that page is so challenging.
Tig Notaro:
It’s so challenging. And look, I love, we both, I’ll speak for myself. I love working. I love what I do. I love it, but I am not looking to just fill my calendar. Stephanie and I have a production company and we do things together and that excites me so much. Writing, creating, producing, acting, we do all of those things together and have over the years. And we have so much, everybody is like, oh God, what was that like working with your wife? It was incredible. Incredible. It was so fun. And we’re both so sad when we go to a set and the other one is not there.
Stephanie Allynne:
And we’re looking for more people like us.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah. We love working together. We love it. And we love working on our projects and so they’re labors of love. And again, I’ve done plenty of things outside of what we create together, but Stephanie makes fun of me because when you know how on projects or sets people are like, I’m not here to make friends. And I’m like, I’m only here to make friends. That is the only thing I’m here to do. Yeah. I might pick up something weird about you, but I’m not necessarily going to be friends, best friends with everyone, but I am here to have a good time. I want to be laughing on set and enjoying myself. That’s so crucial to me is to enjoy what I’m doing and feel like there’s a positive message to the project or there’s good people involved in it. Of course, it’s hit or miss out there, but that’s what I’m going in for. That’s really what I’m interested in.
Stephanie Allynne:
And the thing I heard Marianne Williamson say that I think about almost daily is she was like, it’s great when you go about life in a way that’s like, it’s a really big fucking deal. And then at the same time, big fucking deal. And both are at the same time. So it’s like, you can’t be that forceful to the top and you want the money and then if you don’t get it, you’re miserable. It kind of all has to exist at the same time.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Tig Notaro:
I always say nothing matters and it’s devastating. But also nothing matters, but oh, nothing matters.
Glennon Doyle:
Nothing matters?
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
Nothing matters?
Tig Notaro:
But nothing matters Glennon.
Abby Wambach:
But nothing matters.
Tig Notaro:
But nothing matters. So do it, take the risk. But just remember nothing matters.
Glennon Doyle:
But if the risk works out, just remember nothing matters.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Actually that’s quite freeing.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. That’s going to be the title of this double date. Nothing matters.
Glennon Doyle:
Nothing matters.
Tig Notaro:
This doesn’t matter. It’s not going to be Towanda-ing?
Glennon Doyle:
No, it’s for sure going to be Towanda-ing.
Stephanie Allynne:
And wait, Abby, what do you want?
Abby Wambach:
Thanks Stephanie.
Glennon Doyle:
Sorry.
Abby Wambach:
So the question is, what do I not want? I choose to live a life without chaos and…
Tig Notaro:
That’s good.
Abby Wambach:
It’s difficult with three children, truly, because a lot of that can feel chaotic in moments, but I don’t seek chaos. I was a seeker of chaos for many years of my life and peace is what I’m after. So if I were to say what I don’t want, it would be chaos and there’s a few things that I have to do every single day to achieve, to have a knowing of that groundingness, like working out, it’s drinking coffee in the morning. It’s making sure I’m staying connected with my wife. Those kind of three elements. Seriously coffee is that important to me, it rises to that top. But yeah-
Tig Notaro:
Do you have a mug that says, don’t even talk to me until I’ve had my coffee?
Glennon Doyle:
It’s implied.
Abby Wambach:
There is just no communication for the first 20 minutes of wakeness.
Glennon Doyle:
No, that’s right. We don’t talk to each other.
Abby Wambach:
No.
Glennon Doyle:
No, we’ll talk to the dogs. How old are your babies now? You have two little boys, right?
Stephanie Allynne:
Twin six year olds.
Glennon Doyle:
They’re six already?
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah. They just turned six.
Glennon Doyle:
What is that like? And what’s the best thing and what’s the worst thing? And how has it changed things?
Abby Wambach:
Do you dress them the same?
Tig Notaro:
No, they dress themselves and they look like maybe they don’t have parents.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, sure.
Stephanie Allynne:
They’re very into their clothes.
Tig Notaro:
But you wouldn’t know it.
Stephanie Allynne:
But it’s very-
Glennon Doyle:
Nothing matters.
Tig Notaro:
Nothing matters. I feel like I become a cliche, annoying parent when I talk about them because they have their little moments, but they’re so great. They’re so great. They’re so great. And anytime we find ourselves getting caught up in, oh, this one always forgets to do this or this one gets frustrated with this or this is their little struggle with their dynamic. They are not difficult children and they’re so loving and protective of each other. We cannot reprimand one without the other one getting so upset with us. That is my brother, that is my brother.
Stephanie Allynne:
Don’t say that.
Tig Notaro:
Don’t say that to my brother.
Stephanie Allynne:
Even when they’re the ones that was mad and you come in and then they turn, they both just turn on us.
Tig Notaro:
Turn on you. And you’re just like, okay, well you guys got to figure this out yourselves then, which is pretty much what they do for the most part.
Stephanie Allynne:
It’s that thing where you just look at them and you’re like, oh my God, how are you this little person in the world? And look at your little watch and your shorts and it’s just like…
Glennon Doyle:
Do you put pants on them everyday?
Tig Notaro:
Yes. Yeah. That was our big dream. I was just like, oh gosh, I just want to put little pants on someone.
Stephanie Allynne:
I know your guys’ kids are so much older, but at this age and they haven’t started kindergarten yet, they’re about to start, but just they’re pure joy and the way they run toward their friends at school and they hug each other and they go, I love you. And they’re like, I love you. And just, he’s my friend. I look at that and I go, I feel that way about people and the world, but I would be crazy. Just being able to express yourself and everybody just go, yeah, this is great.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. If you do that your whole life, you don’t have to Towanda.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Stephanie Allynne:
Right. Totally.
Tig Notaro:
Exactly. But I have to say, Towanda-ing is fun. It’s really freeing to Towanda. Kathy Bates was standing in front of me at the airport, maybe five people in front of me, and I considered telling her I was mid-Towanda, but then I just thought, oh, she hears that all the time and I can’t be another person that does the…
Stephanie Allynne:
And she’s like, actually, I’ve never heard that.
Tig Notaro:
Kathy, I’m Towanda-ing!
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I hope she calls in and calls us.
Glennon Doyle:
What do you guys fight about?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
‘Cause it feels like you guys, I mean, do you have arguments? What’s your last-
Tig Notaro:
Yeah, I was saying before, I was like, we’ve got plenty of issues and problems and a lot of them we’ve worked through and a lot of them continue to rear their head, but-
Stephanie Allynne:
We have our ones we’ve really figured out. And then we have the ones that we really do every time.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. What are the ones you do every time? We’ve got three in the bank that we just keep coming back to.
Tig Notaro:
I call them old files where it’s like, should we pull out that old file? We know what’s in there, but should we pull out the old file? And a friend of mine that I grew up with, we also have old files, old jokes or stories. And we’ve been friends since we were children and we moved out here to Los Angeles together. And we have stories that we’ve told each other a million times because we grew up together and we had those stories together and we lived it together. And one of us will bring out the old file and start telling a story. And then the other one will say, wait, do you know this? And the other one will say, absolutely but please tell it again. And we won’t stop each other and we’ll be okay. And we know the story by heart and it’s the same thing with our issues.
Stephanie Allynne:
And that’s what’s so weird.
Tig Notaro:
Don’t interrupt me, Stephanie. Oh, that’s our issue.
Stephanie Allynne:
Let’s get that file. It’s weird where we’re at now once you acknowledge like, oh, we don’t fight well around this one. And the other night was such a weird one because we were going toward one of our fights and it’s not even one of our fights, it’s just like, this is going to turn into our fight. It’s just something triggers.
Tig Notaro:
Here we go.
Glennon Doyle:
Here we go.
Stephanie Allynne:
And I said, okay, I don’t want to do this right now because I’m going to get really mad and then I’m not going to be able to get off of it. And then you’re going to say this and it’s just going to end in the wall. And I don’t feel like doing it right now. And it was like-
Glennon Doyle:
That’s so grown up.
Stephanie Allynne:
And you’re like, I don’t even recognize you right now. I don’t even know.
Tig Notaro:
I said, so you’re just not even going to head over there? You’re just going to stop?
Stephanie Allynne:
And I’m so mad. Of course, I’m mad about that. Of course I’m so mad about that. So I don’t know what to say.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s so good. We should really try that. ‘Cause it feels like you’re on a rollercoaster.
Stephanie Allynne:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
But there’s nothing you can do. You’re there for the whole damn ride.
Stephanie Allynne:
You triggered it. And it’s like, you got on.
Tig Notaro:
One time, we one were having an argument early, probably in our first year or two in our relationship. And we still use this technique to get out of an argument. We were both upset and I think she was maybe locked into maybe yelling at me or something in the moment-
Stephanie Allynne:
She was like, something was coming at me verbally.
Tig Notaro:
And then I, mid-argument, I just wandered off to the window and just put my hands against the glass and I started singing an impromptu musical. And I was like, there was a time. And I just started singing about all the good times we used to have and before things went awry and Stephanie started laughing so hard. And so now we’ll sing musicals to each other when things get really tense and it pulls us out of those moments. And what we’re working on now is following up after-
Abby Wambach:
That’s good.
Stephanie Allynne:
It comes back, you’re like, well, I’m still-
Abby Wambach:
No resolution.
Tig Notaro:
That issue’s still there. So we can pull each other out. Another thing that Stephanie does that will pull me out is when she’s driving me insane, which has only happened once, of course. But I’ll be so frustrated that I can’t see. And then she’ll start pointing to her wedding ring like, you got me for life, I’m yours.
Stephanie Allynne:
Here’s the one you picked.
Tig Notaro:
I’m the one you picked. And then that makes me laugh so hard. And we also joke about when we’re in an argument, we’ll talk about how, whelp I’m legally bound to you, I signed a contract and so I guess we’ve got to work this out because we are contractually bound to this situation.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my God.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. This is brilliant though because we’ve only focused on the things to get us out of it, but we haven’t focused on the then coming back because your whole life would have to turn into a musical if you never talk about the thing.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Tig Notaro:
Ooh. I have to tell you one more thing that gets us out of an argument that actually we haven’t done this in a while. It’s so funny. There was a meme or something.
Stephanie Allynne:
Oh yeah.
Tig Notaro:
That you sent me. Where a guy was driving a car and then his dog was in the passenger seat and had its paw on his arm.
Stephanie Allynne:
And they’re both facing forward. No, they’re not looking at each other.
Tig Notaro:
Right. And I think I’ve told you that it gets me out of situations where if somebody will just touch me in an argument, I can talk better if she just reaches out and touches me. And so she sent me that meme of the guy driving and his dog just having its paw. And so sometimes when we’ve had arguments, Stephanie’ll kind of mimic the dog and put her paw on my arm-
Stephanie Allynne:
We’re so mad and then-
Tig Notaro:
Where she’s so mad and then she’ll put her paw on me and then it makes me laugh or it makes me…
Glennon Doyle:
Brings you back to reality.
Tig Notaro:
It brings me back to reality.
Glennon Doyle:
‘Cause it’s like-
Abby Wambach:
I think that would help for you.
Glennon Doyle:
I do too because it’s not about the thing. It’s about panic. It’s about abandonment.
Tig Notaro:
It’s a connection. And that touch, when Stephanie will reach out and touch me, I’m like, okay, we’re together, we’re here.
Stephanie Allynne:
And it is that thing of, it’s so not what you’re talking about. This is bothering me because I have all these things. We’ve done couples therapy in the past and I think there’s certain things where you have to give it over to someone else because you’re in your thing. I think a breaking point for us, and I actually love this moment so much, was we were in a really big fight and we both at a point where, okay, we got to get done with this fight. And we both were like, well, I’m not sorry. And she is like, I’m not sorry either.
Abby Wambach:
Wow.
Glennon Doyle:
Cool.
Stephanie Allynne:
And we both were like, okay, yeah, we’re different. We see this completely differently and I cannot do that one. And she’s like, I cannot do that one. And so I felt like that was really a great moment because at least nobody’s going toward their thing and being like, okay, you’re sorry.
Abby Wambach:
That’s so interesting to me because-
Glennon Doyle:
You’re not abandoning yourself.
Abby Wambach:
I am always looking for you to be sorry.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes you are. And then I have to lie.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. She’s never sorry. I’m like, do you actually feel sorrow though?
Glennon Doyle:
I’ll say, I’m sorry and she’ll go, do you feel sorry? And I’m like, well we’re lying anyway, do you want me to actually tell you that I feel sorry. No I don’t.
Stephanie Allynne:
Right? It’s like, this is my opinion. Very deeply.
Tig Notaro:
I thought you were going to talk about how, I remember one time after an argument and look, we’re not arguing all the time, but-
Abby Wambach:
1% of the time.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s beautiful. It’s beautiful.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. This is a 1% of our relationship.
Tig Notaro:
One of the times that we argued, I came back in the room. I thought you were going to talk about this and I said, we just got in big trouble. And that’s how it felt. It felt like, wow, we misbehaved there. We just…
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, I get that. Yeah.
Tig Notaro:
Yeah. It felt like a parent would’ve been like, whoa, you too.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. Take it easy.
Tig Notaro:
And so we do reference that still where after we’ll have an argument, we’ll be like, we just got in big trouble and that’ll break tension too.
Stephanie Allynne:
Our couple’s therapist told us this, which I loved so much, it is in the way of like, okay, if you’re not going to say you’re sorry, but go up to the person and go, how can I help? And just how simple that is. It’s like, clearly you are not okay and so as a person, how can I help you? What can I do to make you feel okay? And what can I do to make you feel okay?
Abby Wambach:
Ugh.
Glennon Doyle:
I love it. I feel like we’ve been talking for four minutes.
Abby Wambach:
I know. I feel like we didn’t get through any of-
Glennon Doyle:
We didn’t. We have 18 more questions if-
Abby Wambach:
We have so much more that we want to talk about.
Glennon Doyle:
We love you two.
Stephanie Allynne:
We love you guys.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m just so grateful to have met you. And I would love to meet your little boys sometime.
Tig Notaro:
That’s not possible, but thank you.
Glennon Doyle:
See?
Abby Wambach:
Jesus Christ Glennon.
Glennon Doyle:
Now Jesus Christ Glennon, take it easy.
Tig Notaro:
You walked right into it. And I don’t care. Who’s giving you a signal we’re not finished, but I do want to take a moment to acknowledge how thankful we are for what you both do for the world and the greater good. And I feel so strongly about putting your time and money and power and influence into your beliefs. And I think that you both do that beyond measure and I am so thankful for that.
Glennon Doyle:
Well just real quick, we know you have to go but how do you figure out what you’re going to care about? I mean, I’m just going to say this to the pod squad, Tig and Stephanie just gave a shit ton of money.
Abby Wambach:
So fucking much.
Glennon Doyle:
I don’t know if I’m allowed to say it, but I know you weren’t saying it because of that.
Tig Notaro:
No, no, no, no. I absolutely am. I want people to know. No, no, no, no. That’s not why I’m saying. I truly, I remember Stephanie talking to me about what you do, both of you, and how activated you are and that drew me. I was so blown away and I fully believe that if you have a problem with something, don’t complain about it, do something.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Tig Notaro:
Donate money, lift a finger, and help people. And how do we know? I mean, it’s funny to talk earlier about nothing matters, but of course I think everything matters and I care about everything. And I think that there’s just different ways that you can activate yourself, whether it’s showing up in person for people or giving your money in ways and towards things that you can’t physically get to. I don’t know. Do you make a decision what you care about?
Glennon Doyle:
I mean, yeah we have to because we there’s so many heartbreaking things constantly going on in the world. So you do kind have to figure out what’s breaking the world’s heart and go towards certain things. You gave all the proceeds to the New York City Beacon Theater event to the suffering in Ukraine, through Together Rising. So how do you two figure out with all? I mean, because people are asking us this all the time, with all the heartbreaking things in the world, it’s just easy to shut down and do nothing since you can’t do it all, so how do you decide?
Stephanie Allynne:
Well, what’s interesting about you guys and Together Rising is when everything was happening at that time it had just started in Ukraine, it’s like, there’s a trust in you guys of they’re feeling what we’re feeling. So they’re going to put the money in the place that goes toward what we’re all feeling. And it’s not going to be because it’s coming from a place of feeling and when you can connect to that, then you go, oh, okay then I have trust in together rising because I know the people behind it are just trying to figure it out. And that’s where the trust is.
Tig Notaro:
Intention is so crucial. And I think that we trust the intention behind your organization. I think all the time, let’s say you both despise me or you don’t like my comedy or you took all of my joking seriously. I don’t care. I’m still going to give you my money. I do not care what you think about me because if I think you have good intentions and you are going to be doing something incredible and powerful with that money. Great, great.
Abby Wambach:
We just love you guys so much for it. I mean, we are floored and it’s not often that people step up the way that you do and the thing why Together Rising works so well is that it’s usually just very minimal donations. I think what the what’s the average $31, $35?
Glennon Doyle:
$31. That’s what’s so cool about it, I think we’re at $40 million.
Tig Notaro:
It’s incredible.
Glennon Doyle:
Because that’s what matters. All these people that have a little bit.
Stephanie Allynne:
Right.
Glennon Doyle:
And we tend to think that change is for people who have a lot and that’s not actually ever been true in the history of the world. You all are magic so much for being you in the world.
Tig Notaro:
For everything.
Abby Wambach:
But seriously, let’s meet in person one day.
Stephanie Allynne:
I know it would be so great. We want to meet your guys’ kids.
Abby Wambach:
Sounds good.
Glennon Doyle:
Love to the boys. Love to the three cats.
Tig Notaro:
Thanks. Same to you.
Glennon Doyle:
And just good luck with everything. We just love you. We love who you are in the world and to all the rest of you people listening, we will see you next time on We Can Do Hard Things.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.