The Time Glennon & Abby Called It Off – and Live Pod Squad Q&A!
July 14, 2022
Glennon Doyle:
Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today, we’re going to hear more from our live one year anniversary recording. It was just the best. I’m still thinking about it. This part that we’re airing today was especially fun for us because we got to see some of your beautiful faces and of course hear your incredibly insightful questions. We also each shared the episode that we can’t stop thinking about. I actually can’t stop thinking about the one caller who asked Abby what it was like for her to be waiting for me to figure out if we should or should not be together. All right. Let’s jump back into our live one year anniversary celebration. I’m so excited to move on to our Q&As from our pod squatters. We have-
Amanda Doyle:
Yes, but also I’m going to do something really quickly.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, yes.
Amanda Doyle:
If you have any of the questions you want to call in, because we just want to keep this for the next year as it’s been this year, just like a constant conversation and we want to hear what you want to hear about, and we want to talk about what you want to talk about. Now that we have a fancy new segment, apparently we’re going to need to do that too.
Glennon Doyle:
Tell me more.
Amanda Doyle:
This is the phone number 747-200-5307, 747-200-5307. Call us.
Glennon Doyle:
Let’s hear from Karen.
Karen:
Hey Glennon and Abby and Amanda. This is Karen White from Panama City, Florida. I’m curious if you have a favorite episode, the one that surprised you the most.
Abby Wambach:
I’ll start.
Glennon Doyle:
Cool. Go for it.
Abby Wambach:
My favorite episode was My Hard Thing, episode 70, because this is the one that you shared about your relapse in bulimia. I watched you process, from the moment you told me that it was happening to the time that you recorded it, and that was a beautiful one step after another process. Vulnerable, hard, true. As your protector, I like to think of myself that way, leading up to this telling of it made me very nervous. I kept asking you, “Are you sure you want to do this?”
Abby Wambach:
I have to say that as I sat in this exact seat and I was looking at you, watching you do it, the world out there might not know, but our marriage vows of trust and communication and truth and honesty, those are vows that run through. They’re the thread and the fabric that runs through all of our life. It’s what keeps us sober. It’s what keeps our life moving. Witnessing that honoring of not just those vows, but the sacred vow that you have with your own self, it was just magic. Pride is such a weird word. I was proud of you. I just felt so close to you, and it made me fall in love with you in a different way, and it made me trust you even more.
Abby Wambach:
I don’t know. It’s one of those things, when you have to tell a really hard truth, we don’t do it as often as maybe we should because we fear that somebody will think that we are untrustworthy, but really it is the stepping stone to gaining people’s trust, especially when it’s hard.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I get that.
Abby Wambach:
Yes. So many people now stop me in the streets and thank me on your behalf because of their own personal situation.
Amanda Doyle:
Oh, that’s beautiful, Abby.
Glennon Doyle:
Thanks babe.
Amanda Doyle:
I’ll go. I have one.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. What about you, sissy?
Amanda Doyle:
We’ve been lucky enough to do four podcasts with Dr. Brené Brown. Episode 83 was mine. We were talking in that one about communicating with our partners and this phenomenon which I’m sure will be foreign to everyone of partners seeming utterly nonplussed about things that we have a lot of feelings about. For example, how everything is going to get done that needs to get done, and why it’s running through my head. It’s incessantly and with growing alarm and appearing to decidedly not be running through your head because apparently you can do things like take a nap.
Amanda Doyle:
I think that I won’t be able to sleep for the rest of my life. We were talking about that and how it all leads to anger and resentment and communication that becomes so painful and unmanageable for everyone involved. She said something that clicked something for me. She said, “I’m so invested in not feeling out of control or being perceived as being out of control, that it’s hard for me to say I’m feeling anxious and it’s easier for me to say, “Fuck, are you still napping?” And then, she said, “I wonder, is it about fear and anxiety that I’m not managing, that I’m using control and criticism to manage my own fear and anxiety?”
Abby Wambach:
Yes. That’s good.
Amanda Doyle:
That clicked something for me because I know that that whole phenomenon is obviously about untenable, unequal mental loads, and all of that structure, gender bullshit. It is that, and it is also for me about how it is harder for me to manage my own fear and anxiety, and it is easier for me to control and criticize my partner than it is for me to manage my anxiety and fear, and that if I didn’t start trying to manage that, that we would be in a death spiral because control and criticism are not working for either of us. They’re toxic for both of us. I know that’s not the only thing it is, but I’ve also started in those moments, the moments where I feel the flood and I want to be like, my instinct is like, “Fuck, are you still napping?”, or like, “Oh, it must be nice,” or like, “Why are you not stressed about this thing?” I just tell myself how much of this is about my anxiety and fear, and is there a way that I can take better care of myself in this moment?
Abby Wambach:
Wow.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s good.
Amanda Doyle:
Because that is what it’s about, I think, most of the time.
Abby Wambach:
How is it working?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. Is it working?
Amanda Doyle:
I think it’s like that tiny little interstitial moment where I realize that there might be something for me to consider to care for myself, and incidentally it’s also caring for my partner because the criticism and the control won’t manifest as much, but it’s just like, “Oh, what’s the thing under the thing?” You’re angry, but you’re angry because you have this anxiety that he doesn’t have, and that’s why you’re angry. You don’t actually want him to have anxiety.
Glennon Doyle:
No.
Amanda Doyle:
I don’t want my husband to have the anxiety that I have.
Glennon Doyle:
No.
Amanda Doyle:
I don’t want an equal distribution of the burden that I have in terms of that mental actual anxiety that I want neither of us to have. It’s more just about what can you do to cope better in this situation, and can you use your words to ask for that thing-
Glennon Doyle:
To get what you need
Amanda Doyle:
… or give it to yourself?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
Right?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
Because being pissed isn’t giving yourself anything.
Glennon Doyle:
No, it’s not. It’s giving yourself another job, actually, and more to do energetically to be angry. You’re saying a much more fancy, smart way of the whole, when I realized that it must be nice to take a nap, must be nice to be a joyful, happy human being, must be nice to have hobbies and do things you like and smile. What you really mean is it must be nice. I would like that.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
How do I get that?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. Babe, what about you? Episode that you can’t stop thinking about?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I like saying it that way because I do have to tell you this is extra, maybe, but I value every one of these conversations that we have so much that I actually don’t like it when people say this was my favorite.
Amanda Doyle:
It’s like what’s your favorite kid? Although, we know who it is.
Glennon Doyle:
No. It’s not exactly that. I think it’s also as being somebody who does other people’s podcasts, it’s so vulnerable. You go on their thing and then you’re like, “Oh, my God. I hope people like it,” and then you watch and see if people like it. To me, I know I care so much about this podcast and every person that comes onto our podcast is so unbelievably vulnerable, and I don’t like the hierarchy. It was what it was. Every conversation was so exactly what it was supposed to be. It will hit somebody exactly the way it was supposed to. It’ll be somebody’s most important because of this one thing that was said, or because of this. I don’t do any of the favorites, or for myself, it just feels really important to me. Truly, my two, I think that one that I really will never stop thinking about was the one that we did, that Chase and I did with Ocean Vuong.
Abby Wambach:
Sister and I, our feelings are not hurt bout it at all.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I know.
Amanda Doyle:
It was so beautiful.
Abby Wambach:
It was so beautiful.
Glennon Doyle:
But if you haven’t listened to it, Ocean Vuong is a poet. Just poet isn’t the right word. It is, but he’s just an incredible thinker and human being and feeler and noticer. He’s a queer person and my son is queer and he … My son is Japanese and Ocean is Vietnamese. We just had a talk about a lot of the racism that Ocean faced growing up and a lot of the racism that Chase faced, that my son faced growing up. It was a really interesting situation to think about the fact that Ocean had a mother who prepared him for all of that, and Chase did not have that. I didn’t do anything to prepare Chase for being a brown kid in America.
Glennon Doyle:
I was out in the world doing my best to do anti-racism work and I was not helping my son who I stared at all day and thought about non-stop obsessively. I’m on the landing about it. I’m stunned by it. It is amazing what whiteness can do, the way that it can just convince you that your child, your whiteness has rubbed off on him and he will not experience. It’s baffling to me. It also has made me feel so close to every mother or parent who felt like they did something or missed something or screwed something up that they will never be able to get back.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m not beating myself up about it. I just feel solidarity with every mother who’s been like, “Oh, where was I?”, and I can’t get that one back.
Abby Wambach:
But how awesome for you to have this conversation with Ocean and Chase on this podcast?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. It was amazing. It was amazing. It’s just I have not gotten any new wisdom about it. I’m just stunned by it, the whole thing. It was so beautiful to me to be able to do that with Chase. And then of course, the other one I can’t stop thinking about is all the ones with gender, with the Alok. I’m completely, fully obsessed with gender. Abby can’t even handle. It’s like the waiter comes over and it’s like, “Here are the specials. Do you have any questions?” I’m like, “Do you feel like gender’s an inherent thing that was born in you?”
Amanda Doyle:
Do you feel it? Every podcast I’m like, “Wait, wait.” Do you have gender on the inside?”
Glennon Doyle:
It’s endlessly fascinating to me. I can’t stop.
Abby Wambach:
I know.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m just like, the girls’ friends over, I’m like, “So you’re a girl. You think you’re a girl,” and they’re like, “Yeah,” and I’m like, “But how do you know?” Tish is like, “I can’t do this anymore. I can’t.”
Abby Wambach:
She’s like, “I’m not going to bring my friends over anymore if you want to get into gender dynamics in conversation.”
Glennon Doyle:
So those-
Amanda Doyle:
Alok 74 and 75 all day long.
Glennon Doyle:
Get out of town.
Amanda Doyle:
All day long.
Glennon Doyle:
We have another question. Let’s hear from Pasha.
Pasha:
Hi Glennon and Abby and Amanda. My name is Pasha Marlow and happy anniversary. Thank you for being part of my life for the last year. Every Tuesday and Thursday, I am excited to wake up. Sometimes you are in bed with me because I have insomnia and at 3:00 and 4:00 in the morning, I begin to play and I’m enjoying you while I snuggle in and start the day with your wise and witty words.
Pasha:
I wanted to ask you as a fellow teacher, healer, whether or not it’s hard for you not to share things right away. As soon as I learn something interesting, I just get very excited to share it with the world. I have a hard time holding it in. I have a hard time not sharing my own personal information. I tend to be extremely unfiltered and I lead with vulnerability and courage. Sometimes, I wonder if anything is sacred, if anything is private anymore? I share my grief, I share my fears, I share my angst, I share my ache. I just wonder if you deal with that as well, or if there are any things that you do keep private and sacred. That’s a strange question because then you’d be sharing them if you said so. I’m curious if there are things. You don’t have to say which one.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m going to share all the things that I keep sacred and private. Here I go.
Amanda Doyle:
Oh, my God. I love it because that would be odd because then you’d be sharing them. Okay. This is fascinating for me because I feel like this is a common way of thinking that things are either private and sacred, or they are things that you share. Those are mutually exclusive things. If you share something, it’s by definition not sacred, and if it’s sacred, you don’t share it.
Amanda Doyle:
I actually think it’s possible to think about it the opposite way. Sometimes, the sharing of something is the honoring of it as sacred. The original meaning of sacred is to consecrate, make holy. This is a sacred thing. That’s what I feel often sharing what would be secrets is. I’m always surprised when people are like, “Oh, my gosh. I can’t believe you’d share that.” But it’s because I don’t think things like getting cheated on and getting left and feeling rage and resentment and struggling hard and having kids that are not what I expected them to be and having deep and painful regrets, those are not what I understand as private things. I just think they are actually near universal human experiences. For me, it’s a way of consecrating those messy realities by taking them out of their private shadows and putting them where they rightfully belong, which is as thoroughly human experiences.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Amanda Doyle:
I feel like what happened is that somewhere along the line, sacred came to mean this something that must not be criticized. That is dangerous because it asks us to defend this invaluable image. If you admit to being human inside of your relationship or yourself or any institution, you’re breaking the rules of sacredness, but that is just loneliness and shame is the result of that because everything holy is a complicated journey that we need honesty and community to experience fully.
Glennon Doyle:
Retweet.
Amanda Doyle:
I think that Pasha’s question is anything private and sacred, or do you have to share at all? For me, the best understanding of sacred that I can have is to hold with great respect. I feel like I hold myself with great respect. It’s precisely because of my respect for my own humanity and this faith that we’re all connected in that humanity that I can share the things, and I trust that I am not irredeemably effed, or that if I am, we are all irredeemably effed.
Amanda Doyle:
I will say though that over the last couple of months, I have been challenged in what Pasha was sharing because I am learning what it means to hold my husband and our marriage with great respect. There have been some things that I have shared that did not feel like it met that mark for him. I’m having to learn to navigate that and also come to terms with what is holy mine, my own story, what is our story, what is his story, and this idea that holding each of those with great respect might be very different, but it doesn’t mean that I respect one any less.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s beautiful.
Abby Wambach:
Wow.
Glennon Doyle:
I love that. Just one more spin on it. I just want to add that as you’re talking, I’m thinking the things that you said, parenting is a different thing than I thought it would be. Being cheated on, the overwhelm of life, da, da, da, these are all women’s issues too. There’s an edge on every time somebody says, “Isn’t anything sacred? Don’t you keep it to yourself?” That’s what they’ve been saying to women forever. That’s why during the second wave of feminism, people started having consciousness raising groups where people would get together and talk about their individual issues, people would be like, “Oh, the girls are at therapy. They’re going to their therapy. Why do they have to share those things?” Because when women start to actually talk about their private issues, we learn that they’re not private issues.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
They’re issues in relationships, issues in parenting, issues in education, issues in our bodies, menopause, all these things that … You see, what we’re doing with this podcast is we might be talking about personal things and isn’t anything sacred, but what we learn when we bring them forward is that they’re sacred as hell. They’re just not shameful. They’re all women’s issues. When we get together and we don’t stay siloed about them, and we say, “Yeah. They’re personal and sacred. That’s why we’re talking about them,” then we realize that many of these problems that we have are not personal failings. They are systematic failings. And then, when we can talk about them and talk about change … So yes to all of it. Pasha, thank you for that beautiful question. Let’s hear from Angelique.
Angelique:
Hi Glennon, Abby and Amanda. My name is Angelique, and my question is for Abby. My question is, I’m wondering what it was like for Abby in the waiting for Glennon. I know we all know the story and everything, but I wonder what it was like knowing that the two of you were in love with each other and not knowing whether or not you were going to end up together. I’m wondering what would’ve happened if Glennon, you had decided to stay. Would you have been friends still? Would that have even been possible? Of course, thankfully, that didn’t happen [inaudible 00:22:20] all be deprived of this beautiful union. Okay. Thanks so much for your time. I love the podcast. I love everything you’re all doing, and always looking forward to the next thing, especially the next live thing in person. All right. I love you. Bye.
Glennon Doyle:
We love you.
Abby Wambach:
Thank you, Angelique. I don’t know if you wrote the full story about this and untamed, but do you want to tell the first bit of the story where you called? Well, I’ll tell you. You called me.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, the blow jobs.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. You called me and you told me that you had just gone to a therapy session and that your therapist recommended to give more blow jobs.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, okay. Hold on. Context. I told her I was in love with you.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
With a woman. She said, this is just, this is not-
Abby Wambach:
A bad idea.
Glennon Doyle:
This was the person, the therapist who had been with me and Craig forever and tried to get us through the infidelity. She had thought she had fixed us, and then I come in and say I’m in love with a woman. Basically, I was like, “If you won’t let me be with this woman, I’m at least not having sex with Craig anymore. I can’t do it anymore. I’m dead inside. Every time, I want to die. I can’t do it anymore.” And she said, “Have you considered blow jobs?”
Amanda Doyle:
If I can’t have my cake, I’m not going to eat it too is what it said.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m like, “What?” And she goes, “Well, many women consider them to be less intimate.” Anyway, this in the book immediately, I think I have an epiphany. In real life, it took me a minute. I was like, “What is she saying? Maybe she’s right. Maybe I’m broken. Maybe this isn’t real.”
Abby Wambach:
You called me and told me about this.
Glennon Doyle:
But then she also said-
Abby Wambach:
That you needed to take six months.
Glennon Doyle:
And not talk to you for six months.
Abby Wambach:
And not talk to me for six months. I remember, I was sitting in the parking lot of the golf course I was going to play golf at. I remember being like, “Hmm.” I was enraged by the advice that she gave you, not the six months, the BJ part. I thought, “Okay. Well, if this is what you need, I’m going to honor whatever you want.” The children, your marriage that mattered to me and I wanted to honor it. And so I said, “Okay. If in six months you still want to pursue this, then let’s meet somewhere and we will figure it out, but I want you to know something, that I will not be your friend. I will not text you. I will not call you. I cannot do that. That’s not what this is. This is more important than maintaining a faux friendship. There’s no way I can do anything other than love with you.” We said goodbye, and that was a really hard day. I was heartbroken big time. What happened next?
Glennon Doyle:
Pulse happened.
Abby Wambach:
The next day, I think.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I think it was next day. The shooting in Florida, Orlando.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. In Orlando.
Amanda Doyle:
Orlando. Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Where a man walked into a gay bar and just started shooting. Maybe it wasn’t the next day. Maybe it was a few days later. Anyway, it was close. I still don’t know why that, I just remember watching it on the news and just.
Amanda Doyle:
You went there.
Glennon Doyle:
I went there, I did go there.
Abby Wambach:
She was texting me pictures there. I was like, “I told her that we can’t be texting,” but this big thing happened, and then you had told sister in and around this time. One of your texts was like a 911 text. You were like, “I really need to talk to you. Some really weird stuff is going on.”
Glennon Doyle:
And I’m just joking about the six months.
Amanda Doyle:
You meant approximately in six and a half hours.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I was like, “Oh, I can’t live without her. I can’t live without her.” And the Pulse thing, I don’t know. It was the first time I’d ever experienced anything like that while feeling part of the community to whom it happened.
Abby Wambach:
That’s really interesting.
Glennon Doyle:
I couldn’t relate to anybody else about it except for you.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
So that was the day that we decided we were going to not go to that therapist anymore and we were going to do it.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. I love you.
Abby Wambach:
I love you too. I really was so sad though. I understood, and I was also so heartbroken when you were like, “Okay. If this is meant to be, it will be in six months.”
Glennon Doyle:
I know. But it’s okay. We’re here now.
Abby Wambach:
I know. Okay. Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
I can see her going down a rabbit hole while the podsquad is here.
Abby Wambach:
I was so upset. It was so upsetting.
Glennon Doyle:
But note to everyone, from people who are huge, huge supporters of therapy, it is important to remember you have to have a sense of self that rejects things that are hurtful to you. You are not allowed to turn off your intuition and yourself just because somebody has a degree.
Abby Wambach:
Not every therapist is for every person.
Glennon Doyle:
Right.
Abby Wambach:
You’d have to find the right therapist for you.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. Let’s hear from Kyle.
Kyle:
Hello, Glennon, sister and Abby. My name is Kyle. My wife turned me onto your podcast last fall, and I since have lapped her and now I’ve listened to all of the episodes and she’s a few behind. I’m not trying to brag or anything. I love your show and I love what you all are doing. My question I have for you is, I have a lot of female friends. My wife and I talk about your show a lot. We actually just saw Ashley C. Ford at a speaking event last week. These things are really important to me. I’m curious as a man, what can I do in my everyday life to not only advocate for women, but also help men do better.
Amanda Doyle:
Did he say that he left his wife?
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. That’s what I thought at first. I thought this was going to go a different direction, but I think he said I lapped her.
Abby Wambach:
Lapped. He left her in the dust and listening to more podcasts than she did.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s when sporty spices go fast and pass people twice.
Amanda Doyle:
Okay. Proceed. Thank you.
Glennon Doyle:
First of all, bless your heart, Kyle. Second of all, when Kyle was talking, I think that when a man or someone with more power and privilege than anyone does in a culture asks you an honest question like that, it is a gift to be honest back. With somebody like Kyle, I feel comfortable telling the truth to because he’s earned that. What I’m going to say to Kyle is the truth, and I hope that Kyle holds it with the gift that it is as he’s earned this truth.
Glennon Doyle:
Kyle’s question, and when men ask me that question, it reminds me very much of what Dr. Blay, Dr. Yaba Blay who … Just please listen to Dr. Yaba Blay’s episode. Said to us about how she feels when white people ask her how to be an ally. What she said was that it is very confusing to her when white women always need to have seminars and IG lives and questions about what do we do to stop the killing and stop the injustice and stop all of it. She told us that she felt like that was a confusing thing, that we would need to be taught empathy or taught what justice looks like.
Glennon Doyle:
She said, “When animals need to be protected, or when your people need to be protected, you don’t have to have diversity training. You just know what to do because empathy tells you what to do because you fight like your life is at stake because it is, but you don’t see yourself in me and it doesn’t seem as important so that you have to have training for it.” I think what would be amazing and important is if men would get together and figure out for themselves what they would do if their bodily autonomy were under attack, if they were being sexually assaulted at unbelievable rates, if they were constantly at risk and constantly second-class citizens, what would they do?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
And then do that thing because it’s a double responsibility then for women to feel all the rage, to process being second-class citizens, to process all of it and then to teach them what to do. All the time, when I feel that to men, it makes me remember that that is how I am to Black women, to women of color. Whatever annoyance or rage or disbelief I have that men are not organizing like their families are on fire is the exact same way that Black women likely feel that white women are not organizing like our lives are on fire.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Amanda Doyle:
Because it’s pretty simple. Act like it’s happening to you.
Abby Wambach:
Act like it’s happening to you. That’s good.
Amanda Doyle:
If you want to know how to act, act like it’s happening to you, and then it’s humbling because I’m not acting like my kids are getting pulled over and shot by cops. I’m not acting like that’s happening to me. It’s a challenge to all of us, and to not pretend that asking the people who are under attack what to do is part of doing something.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
Also Kyle, love you.
Amanda Doyle:
Yes. Good job, Kyle. We really do.
Glennon Doyle:
Yaba has told us that. When she’s able to share it’s because she trusts us to handle it. On that podcast, she said, “Kyle, we told you that because you are a man who we thought deserved to hear the gift of the truth.”
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Amanda Doyle:
Not for nothing. The claiming of women’s bodies as a means of production of the state through the action that is very likely to come down from the Supreme Court overturning Roe. You don’t even have to act like it’s happening to you, men. It very much is happening to you. Abortion as medical care is a man’s issue too because 100% of the time, that is what’s happening.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah. We know men know how to get organized. They’re doing startups all the time. Get together, make a plan, unleash your venture capital selves or whatever it is that they … Just do the organizing. Figure it out and then just do it, and that would be great. Okay. We’re going to move on to Donna.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. We’ve got Donna.
Donna:
Hi. My name is Donna Ritterman and my question is, do you think any of this, including all of the podcasts, are relevant for a 68 year old person? I think it’s too late to change and that my chance would’ve been a long time ago, but I’m just curious about what you think. Thank you.
Abby Wambach:
Donna. I love me some Donna, and I have so much reverence for folks who are older than me.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
I always have. I really feel like the stories that they carry with them are our stories, and I don’t believe that it is ever too old to change.
Glennon Doyle:
I think what she’s saying, what I hear is does it matter? What I hear from her is I’m listening, my mind is opening, but does it matter? It’s like our culture really can do a number on an older woman. It makes us feel like we are so irrelevant at a certain point when we’re no longer producing what the culture wants us to produce, whether that’s children or whether that’s work or whatever. It’s a beautiful question. When a 68 year old woman has an awakening, does anybody hear it? I love that question.
Abby Wambach:
I do too.
Glennon Doyle:
I think it’s revolutionary.
Abby Wambach:
I do too. I think that a 68 year old woman who is willing to be open to change gives the possibility for a 58 year old woman to know that change is possible for her in her sixties. I just think that it is all so relevant to all of us because we are discarded after the time where we can birth children. We’ve had, heard the menopause episode.
Glennon Doyle:
My mom texts us about every single episode. Hi, mama. She’s listening right now. Here’s what I think we should do because we don’t know. I think if you are 68 years old, if you’re 65 or older, let’s get a group going.
Abby Wambach:
Let’s do it.
Glennon Doyle:
Sister, say some email words.
Abby Wambach:
Okay.
Glennon Doyle:
And then, here is what we’ll do. Because look, we just talked about like consciousness raising groups, Donna and a bunch of her badass cheetahs should just talk to each other.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
I will kick you off. I will come to your first meeting and kick off that goddamn cheetah group.
Abby Wambach:
What’s the email, sissy?
Amanda Doyle:
Okay. So if you are 60 or older.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, 60. Okay.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah. We’re just inclusive here. If you are 60 or better and you wish to join with the other goddamn cheetahs of Donna’s variety, we are going to receive your emails at wcdht. That seems weird, but it’s we can do hard things, the first letters. Wcdhtpod. That’s P-O-D, @gmail.com. Email us. If we have enough interest, we will set up a group, connect you all.
Glennon Doyle:
I love the idea because remember what Ashton Applegate was talking about at the anti-aging episode. The siloing of generations is the same as the siloing of genders, of women. I want to learn from Donna. We’re all walking around. We don’t even learn from the people who’ve already done all the shit we’re trying to do. We’re all just reinventing the wheel. I would love to learn from some Donnas.
Abby Wambach:
I love it.
Amanda Doyle:
Now, I think we might have to go to our last question. Okay. So we have Christine.
Christine:
Hi, Abby and Glennon and Amanda. I’m so excited to celebrate the one year anniversary of your podcast. It is also the one year anniversary of when I started chemo. My very first chemo was last year on May, 11th, my birthday eve, and I listened to that podcast sitting in the chair. I think many things hit me that day, but especially the song. It still brings me to tears every episode. I just wanted to ask you how that song has been instrumental in the podcast and how it has touched you guys too. Thanks so much for all the work you’re doing.
Abby Wambach:
Christine.
Glennon Doyle:
Christine, I’m so grateful that we ended with this question because the amount of hard things that people have gone through this year, just this one little year since we started this, people who have written to us and posted, the chemo, the divorces, the losses, the deaths, the friendships, all the things that we’ve gone through together, and that this community has … I don’t know. We’ve been a little bit of a touch tree for each other during that time. This song, just for those of you who don’t know that, Tish wrote that song based on some of-
Abby Wambach:
Tish, our middle child.
Glennon Doyle:
Tish, our daughter. Yeah. She is based on some of the ideas from Untamed, and then she sent it to our friend, Brandy Carlisle, and Brandy produced it up. I actually can’t listen to it sometimes because it makes me have too many feelings. I have to be in a really good place to listen to the whole thing. I know what you mean, Christine. It’s a bit of an anthem, bit of a lullaby for all of us. Christine, happy birthday.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Glennon Doyle:
And happy making it through chemo. Happy being a badass.
Amanda Doyle:
I just realized that Christine’s anniversary of her chemo is today the same as our podcast, and it’s our birthday and it’s Christine’s birthday. It’s like a cosmic moment.
Glennon Doyle:
Christine. We love you. Thank you. Thank you.
Abby Wambach:
I want to ask a favor of the pod squad. My mama is going through a health thing right now. Don’t worry. I got her approval to say this, but I’m asking for prayers for my mother Judy, and we’re all, actually all three of us are wearing our Mary medallion.
Glennon Doyle:
Because Mary has Judy’s back,
Abby Wambach:
Big significance.
Glennon Doyle:
She’s a prayer and she likes prayers.
Abby Wambach:
Please, pray for my mama over the next week or so. She needs it, and thank you.
Glennon Doyle:
Nana, you’ve got cheetahs sending you all the strength and love. Look at what you raised. You made this one. You can get through this week. We love you so much. Okay, Sissy. Can you end us with this little pod squad group that we have?
Abby Wambach:
This is the best.
Amanda Doyle:
Yeah. This is actually our second live event that we’ve done. Our first one was back in November. Recently, a group reached out to Glennon to let her know that they, in the chat section of the first event, had been chatting with each other and trying to connect, and that they set up a group where they connected there and they have been doing life together since November. Just a couple weeks ago, they met in Austin, and so we wanted to give a big shout out to Mallory Matthews and her crew there. We just also want to shout out everyone who is brave enough to reach out and admit that you need somebody else. It’s a very brave thing to do, and it’s a beautiful thing to do. That’s what we’re doing with you all on this podcast. We’re just honored and grateful that you need us too.
Abby Wambach:
You all, guess what you did.
Glennon Doyle:
What? We did it.
Abby Wambach:
You did your second live event.
Glennon Doyle:
We did it. We did it. We did it.
Abby Wambach:
You’ve done it.
Glennon Doyle:
We love you.
Abby Wambach:
We love you so much.
Glennon Doyle:
We’re so grateful. We really are. This is very real and true and important to us. You are not alone. You are not alone.
Abby Wambach:
We’re going to keep doing this.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Amanda Doyle:
We can do hard things.
Glennon Doyle:
We can do hard things. We will see you back here just in a couple short days. Don’t forget this week, when life gets hard, you can do hard things. We’re with you.
Abby Wambach:
We love you all so much.
Glennon Doyle:
Bye.