Ashlyn Harris & Ali Krieger Double Date!
June 7, 2022
Abby Wambach:
Oh my gosh.
Glennon Doyle:
This is so exciting.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my gosh. Okay. Before we get into it, I just need to level set the listener of what is happening today. Welcome back to, We Can Do Hard Things, first of all. And second of all, I’m going to take the intro and the bios here because these friends are what I brought into my marriage.
Glennon Doyle:
You did. You did bring them to me.
Abby Wambach:
I did. And y’all are in for a treat.
Glennon Doyle:
That was something that you brought that was good.
Abby Wambach:
I just need to introduce you both because you two are just outrageous. I’ll begin with Ashlyn Harris. She is a two time world cup champion, two time CONCACAF champion and at three time, SheBelieves Cup champion. SheBelieves.
Ali Krieger:
Oh, wow.
Abby Wambach:
She currently plays for Gotham FC of the National Women’s Soccer League, the NWSL, and leads the NWSL with the most saves of any goalkeeper, of any goalkeeper, folks.
Glennon Doyle:
Wow.
Abby Wambach:
She’s a champion of self-expression and self love. Ashlyn is also known for her style and her extensive tattoo artwork. Ali Krieger is an Olympian, two time World Cup champion and a two time SheBelieves Cup champion. She’s a key part of the defense that held opponents scoreless for 539 consecutive minutes during the 2015 World Cup.
Glennon Doyle:
That is how long every game feels.
Abby Wambach:
Recently, Ali was named-
Ashlyn Harris:
For us too.
Abby Wambach:
Yes, exactly. Recently, Ali was named number seven most marketable athlete in the world and currently plays for the NWSL’s Gotham FC.
Glennon Doyle:
There’s no way that there’s six more marketable athletes in the world than Ali Krieger.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah, Ash is one of them.
Ashlyn Harris:
Don’t worry, I was three.
Glennon Doyle:
Are you serious?
Abby Wambach:
What number is Ashlyn?
Ali Krieger:
She’s three.
Glennon Doyle:
Are you serious?
Ashlyn Harris:
I got the boot.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my God. Well, in 2019 Ashlyn and Ali married and in February of 2021 they welcomed their new baby, Sloane. They’re also parents to two puppies, Logan and Storm. My goodness. I love you both so much. Thank you for joining us today on We Can Do Hard Things double Date and we got to kind of just dive in because-
Ashlyn Harris:
Oh my gosh.
Ali Krieger:
We’re ready.
Ali Krieger:
Peel the layers. Let’s go. We’re so happy to be here. Thank you so much.
Abby Wambach:
Honey, take the first question.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Glennon Doyle:
Of course. Thank you for being here. We love you so much. We wanted to start by talking about your wedding because that was just a ridiculously magical, wild, beautiful day. That was the first time I really got to meet you all. Can you tell us what’s the most memorable moment of your wedding day for each of you? It doesn’t have to be the most because that’s too stressful.
Ashlyn Harris:
I think what was so magical was being in one place for the first time with all of our people surrounded by so much love and to be able to express it to your chosen family, your family, all your people who have helped you get to that point and it be such a celebration. It’s probably the first time it ever happened and it quite possibly could be the last time we have that opportunity and it was such a moment of visibility for two queer women. We really wanted to capture that. We didn’t want to be selfish. We wanted to like really show it to everyone. We had a vision and we totally executed it. It was literally the most magical day of my life.
Ali Krieger:
I think for me walking up those stairs, and it’s kind of similar to how you expressed it, but walking up the stairs, I was actually probably more nervous than playing in a World Cup final because of just the feeling and the emotion that I had and the chills of getting up to those last few steps where you start to see everyone and how everyone was standing there looking at us and just… You see your favorite people in the world all in one place. And I think that specific moment for me and then making kind of the walk around, that was truly amazing. I can’t really articulate that feeling that I felt in that moment.
Ashlyn Harris:
I didn’t take my eyes off of her the whole entire time.
Abby Wambach:
I know, I watched you. I watched you. And I had tears just… I’m a crier at weddings, to begin with, but knowing you both and knowing all that the queer community has gone through over the last centuries, to see not only you both getting married, but to be getting married in the most fashionable fucking way ever.
Glennon Doyle:
Well, the costumes, you guys. Your wedding costumes. Oh my God. Okay. So since you asked me, I’ll tell you my top five memories from your wedding. Okay.
Ali Krieger:
I’m excited.
Glennon Doyle:
So do you remember when Sydney read the freaking reading? The reading at the ceremony was Justice Kennedy’s decision making same sex marriage law of the land and we were crying. You were crying, actually. I was crying inside. I don’t cry in the outside because the Lexapro stops my tears right at the… But I cry on the inside. So Sydney was doing the Sydney-
Abby Wambach:
Sydney Leroux, yes.
Glennon Doyle:
… the officiating, and she was so amazing, and then she didn’t let any of us sit down.
Ashlyn Harris:
My poor grandparents.
Ali Krieger:
I know. And I was looking around like, oh my God, I feel so bad for all… And a lot of our friends were actually pregnant. I was like, Oh my God.
Ashlyn Harris:
She was nervous too. She was very nervous.
Abby Wambach:
She did a great job. She just forgot the one thing like, “You all may sit now.”
Glennon Doyle:
To let us sit. But it was appropriate. I was like actually, damn it, we all should be standing at Ashlyn and Ali’s wedding. If there’s any wedding that deserves it, it’s this one. And then do you remember when Kyle, Ali’s brother, did the freaking toast. I have it here. Okay. So he said, “Your love is a beacon of hope for so many gay young people who don’t get to see happy endings reflected back to us. You are our happy ending.”
Abby Wambach:
Yep. You are our gay happy ending. Jesus.
Ashlyn Harris:
What a moment, yeah.
Ali Krieger:
I mean, he winged half of it probably. He just got on a roll and he’s just so incredible and such a pillar for our relationship too and the way we live our lifestyle and he’s just been there every step of the way. And so that was an incredible moment for both of us just to see him up there. I mean, he was so nervous. We were laughing.
Ashlyn Harris:
He had people crying. He had people laughing. It was perfect.
Ali Krieger:
That was a great moment.
Abby Wambach:
He’s the absolute best. And you know what, actually, before Glennon, Kyle was the first sober person I’ve ever met. And so when I was going through my early days of sobriety, he often came to my mind like, okay, if Kyle can do it, I can do it, you know? And then I met Glennon and everything kind of changed. But he’s such a beacon of hope to begin with and it doesn’t hurt to look at him.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, he’s so unattractive. Your family really struggles in that area. Do you remember the best moment of my life? The best moment of my life, we were on an airplane.
Abby Wambach:
Oh yes, this is good.
Glennon Doyle:
Someone walks up to us, he goes, “I watch you in the goal” or something to you. He’s like, “I watch you in the goal. Congratulations on your wedding.” And then he walked away and I was like, I feel like he said some soccer things but I don’t understand. And then I go, “Oh my God, that guy thinks we’re Ashlyn and Ali.
Abby Wambach:
Ashlyn and Ali, yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
And then she was like, “Should I tell him?” I was like, “No, we’re going to ride this out.”
Abby Wambach:
She was like, “Get ready to play the part.”
Glennon Doyle:
So then Ashlyn, you gave a toast at the wedding and during the toast you said so many beautiful things, but you actually during the toast talked about your friendship with Abby and I didn’t understand, I don’t think, the depth of all of your friendship until that toast. So tell us how you all became friends and what this has meant?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, I can’t wait to hear your perspective.
Ashlyn Harris:
Oh my gosh, this is so good. It’s so interesting when I think back because I was so young and it was such a vulnerable time for me and I don’t know how we ended up connecting, but Abby’s ex-wife was one of my childhood friends. So that’s how the connection was made. So it was my first professional year in the league and I was making minimum contract and I just suffered a ton of injuries in college. So I was kind of just finding my way a little bit and Abby and I hit it off. We were brothers from the moment we had our first conversation and it was such a weird time in my life. I really believe people are placed in certain moments for certain reasons.
Ashlyn Harris:
When I was in that moment when I was giving my speech… She would let me come to terms with my sexuality because I wasn’t comfortable at the time being like, “I’m gay.” I have these weird feelings for friends and I don’t know what’s going on and I’m super uncomfortable and she just loved me through the journey and was a good friend to me and showed me how to live life. Because I came from nothing, I didn’t experience very much outside my bubble and my small world and she just would take me on these freaking wild ass excursions. She would be like, “Hey, drive your car to 95. We’re doing a cross country trip in an RV with seven people.” “Sure. I’ll be there. I have no money.” “No problem, I got you.”
Ashlyn Harris:
We did life together. Some of my greatest memories are with you and meeting Ali and coming to terms with my sexuality. I just remember sitting on your couch, folding your laundry, talking about what gay-
Glennon Doyle:
That sounds familiar.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, what gay looked like for me and it’s a really important moment in my life because she just took care of me and I was super young, I was super naive. I really don’t think I had much to offer her at the time, but she just loved me unconditionally and took me under her wing. And then our friendship, we were always by each other’s side from then on out. We had each other’s back still to this day.
Abby Wambach:
So good. I just remember that time. You were young and I just remember seeing a kid who… It’s not that you needed any help because I knew you’d figure it out. You were very, very strong and you had the kind of a moral compass that I in many ways wish to have. Feel like you knew a little bit more right from wrong than I did. I had a little bit of a wild streak in me and you did too, but I think that you had an ability to pull in the reins way better than me.
Abby Wambach:
I think that what you just said it touches me so much and the thing that you gave me was longevity. When a new kid who comes to a team is so open minded and… You weren’t filled with ego, you were like, yes, whatever it takes. And as an older veteran player, it made my career last longer because, first of all, it made me feel like I was doing something good and second of all, your youthfulness made me feel like, oh, you know what? This is something that I still want to keep doing. Because you made it so easy every day in the locker room.
Glennon Doyle:
So Ali, did you also have a long journey with accepting your gayness? Do you have a similar story to Ashlyn or was it different for you?
Ali Krieger:
I think it was different for me because when I went to college I didn’t know two women could actually be together. I didn’t know that was a thing and that could be normal. And so I was a bit confused and then I started to explore my sexuality in college towards the end of my four years and then when I got to Germany I dated a woman there and I had a really great relationship for a couple years. And then when I met Ash, I was like, whoa, this is a thing and this is real and this isn’t just a phase.
Ali Krieger:
So I was pretty open to any relationship when I was overseas and throughout my college career. And then when I met Ash, obviously, and Abby was there since day one through that experience, I think I just knew. It was a different feeling for her that I had with anybody else. I remember even telling my brother that experience too, that once we met, I was like, wow, just something is different within me in the way that I feel.
Ali Krieger:
And I think also what I value about our relationship the most is that we gave it a chance to build a really good foundation. So we were friends for the first year, I think, before we really started to kind of change that emotional connection into a physical connection and I feel like that set us up for success through now.
Ashlyn Harris:
Absolutely.
Abby Wambach:
So when was the moment that you saw each other in that love way? Is there like-
Glennon Doyle:
And who made the first move?
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, we got to know.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. So Ashlyn is pointing to Ali right now and Ali doesn’t seem to be rejecting that idea.
Ali Krieger:
I guess.
Ashlyn Harris:
This girl busy calling me from Germany. She must be lonely.
Ali Krieger:
And I was like, you better be picking up because it’s a lot of money.
Ashlyn Harris:
I had to pay Skype bill after Skype bill, after Skype and I’m like, well, she better send money along with that mixtape. She was sending me boxes of mixtapes.
Ali Krieger:
We still were sending gifts to each other. Maybe it was just me.
Ashlyn Harris:
Like care packages. It was so cute.
Ali Krieger:
I don’t know. It was obviously before the World Cup, so 2010 was that year. And then obviously, through the world cup it was… I mean, Abby was there through this experience, but it was also like everything was new and we were, I don’t know, just on a different platform and a lot of things were changing for me personally and also just as a footballer. So I think I needed to just kind of navigate through a lot of different obstacles at the time and my feelings included. So it wasn’t as easy at the beginning, but eventually I knew that she was the one for me and then just blossomed from there.
Glennon Doyle:
Blossomed. Such a good word for it.
Abby Wambach:
I just need to say that in that 2011 world cup, a lot of people talk about that big goal we scored at the end of the game against Brazil that sent it into penalties and not enough people in my mind talk about how we actually won that game and went forward with that game and it was by the penalty of Ali Krieger.
Ali Krieger:
I remember you yelling at me on my way up to kick the ball because I started walking and I think everybody was so nervous and the four players before me, I think, was Abby, Carly, Pinoe-
Abby Wambach:
Boxy.
Ali Krieger:
Boxy. I mean, just absolutely rocked their PK. There was no question. I was like, oh God, I got to like-
Ashlyn Harris:
Don’t screw it up.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah. And I started kind of walking and Abby goes, “Don’t walk, jog.” And I just remember I was like, oh, and I kind of like snapped into it, not out of it. I snapped into it and I really focused from then on and I was like, I can’t screw this up. I can’t. I can’t F it up.
Abby Wambach:
I’m telling you, it is one of my biggest pet peeves, people walking to a penalty because there’s too much thought that goes on during a walk. When you’re jogging, your body’s in motion like let’s go, let’s get this done. You know what you’re doing. Put the ball in the spot, put in the goal. Let’s go. I’m glad that I said. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way.
Ali Krieger:
No, no, no, you didn’t hurt my feelings. You actually made me more-
Ashlyn Harris:
Only the biggest moment of her life. “Stop talking.”
Ali Krieger:
Well, probably. I was exaggerating a little bit. It was just, come on Kriegs.
Ashlyn Harris:
That’s us in a nutshell.
Ali Krieger:
But I did want to mention, Abby, you also knew how to get the best out of all of us younger players. I really appreciated that. I know Ashlyn has an amazing connection with you and such a brilliant friendship story and throughout the years it’s obviously grown so much, but I don’t know if you realized. You obviously knew what you could get out of people and you always knew how to get the best out of us and I just really appreciated that and I really value that about you. Obviously you’re one of the greatest leaders we’ve ever had.
Ashlyn Harris:
And I have to say, I know we’ve kind of mentioned this story before, but I think it’s a really important story to share with everyone, is in your final game, your retirement game, I understood at the time you weren’t in a great place and it was a really difficult time for you and you… I’ll never forget. Plays in slow motion like a movie in my mind. You came into the locker room and you were pissed because we lost, which you should be, and you took your captain band and you took it off and your shirt and you just threw it into the dirty laundry.
Abby Wambach:
Oh my God. Ashlyn, this story.
Ashlyn Harris:
And when no one was looking, I took out that captain band and I took off my Jersey and I wrapped it and put it in my bag and still to this day, I have your last captain band wrapped in my Jersey that I wore because that is the impact you had on the people around you. And maybe you didn’t know it and I just knew there was going to be a time where you wanted that back and I can’t wait to deliver that to you when I see you face to face because that’s the effect you had on people that you didn’t even know. And it was so powerful and it was so moving and that I need to give you back that last captain band. That’s important to me for you to have it because that’s the impact you had on the people around you.
Abby Wambach:
I’m not crying at all.
Glennon Doyle:
That is friendship, is seeing somebody have a moment where you know that’s not them in this moment and they’re going to want this moment back and saving it for them.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, I was struggling so much at that time and there was a lot going on in my personal life and that was my last game. So it was of course super emotional. And I was just so pissed to leave the game on a loss. I think I’ve come to more better terms with it now, but it still irks me. I’m like, how the fuck? How the fuck could we win so many games and championships and I lose my last one? That’s the way I’m going out? Are you serious? Thank you, Ashlyn.
Abby Wambach:
And Ali, what you just said means a lot to me, especially now, five, six years out of my career into my retirement. My kids, they think that what I did was really cool but they’re my kids, they don’t think that highly of me. So my egos filled up. Thank you.
Ali Krieger:
Being vulnerable and authentic and having a handful of struggles, that’s also what makes the experience so great and us to be human beings. And we’re not always going to be perfect and we’re not always going to be so strong all the time and it’s actually refreshing to know that even the best of us can also struggle and fight through it. And that’s something that I think Ash and I really appreciated about you too, that it’s not always going to be rainbows and butterflies.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah. It just isn’t. If we were to get really honest, and I’m sure both of you now in your club teams and having some time apart from the women’s national team, being a professional athlete is a really intense way of life and everything in many ways suffers, right? Your body suffers, your mentality, suffers your emotions suffer, your relationship suffer, the relationship you have with yourself sometimes suffers.
Abby Wambach:
I’m now just getting to a place in my life where I don’t have to traumatize my body to feel good about myself. The self esteem that I get from working out hard I’m trying to fix because I can’t maintain that for the rest of my life. I’ll be incapable of walking with knee problems and ankle problems as I get older because I’m just brutalizing my body day after day. And so I’m trying to figure this out.
Glennon Doyle:
What did you guys honestly think when Abby told you that she was going to marry a previously straight 40 year old Christian mother of three?
Abby Wambach:
I love this question.
Ashlyn Harris:
Were we at the Super Bowl when we first met?
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah.
Ashlyn Harris:
You remember this?
Ali Krieger:
Yeah.
Abby Wambach:
Oh, yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
You were so nice to me. It was so terrifying that night, but you were very kind to me.
Ashlyn Harris:
Well, I just remember how Abby spoke about you and how happy she was and how she was growing as a person in this like extremely… She’s still trying to talk to me about how her life is so incredible and amazing. It’s not even the place to be having these very serious conversations about how life is changing and it’s so great. But honestly, she was glowing and she was so happy and she couldn’t wait to talk to me about it. And it was such a moment where I was like, she must be really freaking awesome. And I met you and I could tell you were pretty reserved around me and quiet. As I started meeting you more and more, I could really feel your fun side and I’m like, this chick is freaking awesome and perfect and challenges her and it’s balancing her in all the most perfect ways.
Ashlyn Harris:
And I get why you guys work because you guys are such incredible people. You deserve to be happy. I love that we all get a second chance in life. And the fact that you guys found each other when you did, I know you saved her life, but she chose to save her own and do her own work and her own steps and you just added and enhanced this richness that was already there.
Ashlyn Harris:
So I’m just so happy that you guys both found so much happiness in each other. We’re like family now and I love that. I love that I have you in my phone and I can pick up whenever and just call you guys and get the best advice or just a hangout, talk shit session. It’s just the same banter as when we first met. And now Glennon that you’re a part of it, it’s a complete circle.
Glennon Doyle:
Who proposed? How did y’all do the proposal? How did this happen?
Ashlyn Harris:
I knew I wanted to marry her the moment I met her.
Glennon Doyle:
No.
Abby Wambach:
I mean come on Glennon
Ashlyn Harris:
I literally bought a ring. I bought a ring-
Ali Krieger:
Everyone says that.
Ashlyn Harris:
I remember telling her if you don’t marry me, I will drag you down that aisle myself. I actually had the wedding ring for three years because I already knew.
Ali Krieger:
And then I was like, well, what was your thought process in those three years? Were you like questioning?
Ashlyn Harris:
I just knew that even though I was ready and my time was ready-
Ali Krieger:
What took you so long?
Abby Wambach:
She was waiting on you Ali.
Glennon Doyle:
How did you know?
Ashlyn Harris:
Thank you Abby.
Abby Wambach:
She was waiting on your, sister. I remember. I saw that ring.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah, I know. Yeah, I get it. I get it.
Ashlyn Harris:
I had the ring for three years because I knew this is what I wanted and there was no doubt in my mind, but I also didn’t want to be selfish. I needed her to be ready.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh, I get that.
Ali Krieger:
I wasn’t ready.
Abby Wambach:
That’s so beautiful though that you knew that, that you were able to press pause on something that was really important to you because you knew long term, if I put her in this corner, she’s going to be gone.
Ali Krieger:
We would take random trips, weekend trips just to get away and get away from work and soccer and all the things.
Ashlyn Harris:
Staycations.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah, just to refresh and recharge. And you know, it’s only about an hour and a half from Orlando. So it was nice. It was just like a normal weekend. I didn’t think anything of it. I was like, yes, we get to go, I don’t know, walk the beach and hang out and sit by the pool and have a cocktail or whatnot and go to dinner just by ourselves and be able to talk about anything and everything outside of soccer, which is always so nice. And it was just a random weekend and we went down to the beach and we brought, I think, champagne. I was just thinking it was like a normal evening.
Ashlyn Harris:
I’m in my full Tom brown fit. There’s nothing about this.
Ali Krieger:
I mean, I thought I was cute too.
Ashlyn Harris:
There’s nothing about this. It’s just a regular evening.
Ali Krieger:
But there’s like this rock, these rocks. I don’t know what you would call it, but it’s just kind of like a bank of rocks going out into the ocean and people kind of stand on, take photos. It was just the way the light was hitting. The clouds were so beautiful. The sunlight was coming, setting through the clouds and there were just… It was unreal. And then there were sailboats out in the water and I was just like, this is so beautiful. So I said, “Can you come over to the rocks and take a photo of me for Instagram because I need my-
Abby Wambach:
No way.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need my insta photos. But just by myself. I had a cute outfit on. Yeah, you can take it. You can take it. I’m going to go stand over here.
Glennon Doyle:
You’re doing great, sweety.
Abby Wambach:
Your shadow’s in my shot, honey.
Ali Krieger:
I know. And I’m like, “Here, hold my camera and take a few shots.” Anyway. So then she goes, “Okay, well now can I actually get into the photo?” And I was like, “Well, yeah, you can come now. Come on, come on.” So we sat there and I was just holding the phone up in selfie mode before someone else had come and taken a photo, but she had her hand up in between us holding the ring-
Ashlyn Harris:
As she’s clicking all the photos.
Ali Krieger:
I’m like, “Put your hand down. What are you doing? You’re ruining my moment”
Abby Wambach:
Okay.
Ashlyn Harris:
I literally have it holding in the silhouette-
Ali Krieger:
And I’m like, “I can’t see this sailboat.” Right in between us there was a sailboat and her hand is here and I’m like, “Okay.” And then she brings it around. I think I still have that photo.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, we sure do.
Ali Krieger:
I have so many photos of her holding it. And she brings it around the front and she was like, said-
Ashlyn Harris:
The whole thing-
Ali Krieger:
Said the whole thing and-
Ashlyn Harris:
Asked her to marry me.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah, will you marry me? I didn’t hesitate.
Ashlyn Harris:
No, you did not hesitate.
Ali Krieger:
I said absolutely.
Ashlyn Harris:
I on the other hand was like, girl, your hands, you better not drop this ring in these rocks in this water. That’s all I kept thinking of.
Ali Krieger:
I put it right on.
Ashlyn Harris:
I was not going to mess this up. My hands had been tested my whole career. I was not going to drop this ring.
Ali Krieger:
And I remember we called Syd right away.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, we called our family.
Ali Krieger:
And Pinoe, Syd, Liz, our parents. Yeah, it was great.
Ashlyn Harris:
People freaked. It was great.
Ali Krieger:
We’ll send you guys the photos.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay. Yes, we would love that. How did you know after a few years of being married that you were ready to become parents?
Ashlyn Harris:
We had actually spoke about adopting the first moment we met, about how we… We talked about our hopes and our dreams and all this foundation was built 10 years ago. And as soon as COVID hit and the Olympics were pushed back, soccer just wasn’t moving us like it did.
Ali Krieger:
We really like, another year? I don’t know. We should start planning for…
Ashlyn Harris:
It’s like Abby said, you have to sacrifice it all and at some point you come from a place of holy smokes, I just sacrificed 20 years and now I’m in my later thirties and it’s like, now what? And I just felt that we were so ready for this moment and we were like, why not? We’ve built this foundation. We have the stability. Let’s not do things just for a paycheck.
Ashlyn Harris:
So this was our moment to kind of break free and I think it was a really good time for us because we weren’t happy within that bubble of traveling all the time, blah, blah, blah. So when COVID hit, we were like, oh my God, I love you so much. People were struggling during COVID and I was like, this is what people usually do. They have time to hang out and go for a walk at sunset or not have to surround your entire day on working out and recovering and sleeping.
Ashlyn Harris:
I just could shut off 25 years of just dedicating my entire life to this craft. And Ali and I were like, let’s do this. This is our time. And we matched in three weeks.
Glennon Doyle:
No.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah. But we also were like, this could be three years. We don’t know. We were still planning on wanting to go to the Olympics and be a part of that experience and the team at the time. We had just got home from the Shebelieves or a tournament right before everything shut down and we were like, well, we don’t even know how long this is going to take. So let’s just put our names in and see what happens and we’ll go from there. Well, then we get a call like three weeks later and we were like, “Excuse me?”
Ashlyn Harris:
We were like, “Do we want to do this?”
Ali Krieger:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
You were like, “Wait, hold on.”
Ali Krieger:
I was like, “Good thing I’m sitting down.”
Ashlyn Harris:
Because once we do this, this is it.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, it is.
Ashlyn Harris:
Our life, we’re not selfish anymore. It’s not about us. And we were like, let’s do this.
Abby Wambach:
And I just want to give a little context to the listener because I think that you all play in the NWSL, which is a professional team, which is a little bit less traveling than it is on the women’s national team. So when you’re talking about settling down more and maybe not playing on the national team as much, you’re still playing in the club system but you have a little bit more of a “Normal” existence, a day to day a schedule where you’re not at the mercy of traveling for months and years at a time to train.
Glennon Doyle:
How interesting though to go from what, Abby always calls and you’re referring to, as a very, not even a negative way, but self-centered existence where you’re constantly worried about your own body and your own… You’re your own planet and then you become a mother of an infant, which is the most self-sacrificing exist on earth, right? You went from extremes.
Abby Wambach:
How did you do that? What was that transition like?
Ali Krieger:
It’s the hardest thing we’ve ever done. We didn’t sleep. We actually hired a night nanny because we were like, listen, we are fit right now. We don’t want to have to do this all over in 12 weeks and we want to be there for the team. We still felt like we could actually go to training and just figure it out, but we only took two weeks out of the 12 weeks of maternity leave and-
Ashlyn Harris:
Our night nanny would go 48 hours on and then we would take the next day 48 hours on. We would take the next day, so we were kind of flip flopping. But it was so hard. As you know, when you have an-
Glennon Doyle:
No, I don’t know. I was not soccering.
Ashlyn Harris:
We had shifts. We just did it in shifts.
Ali Krieger:
We were high fiving in the hallway at like 02:00 AM.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, in the middle of the night. I would go to sleep at 09:00 and Ali would be up until midnight and then I would do the 02:00 AM to the 06:00 AM and then get up-
Ali Krieger:
I would do the morning.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, she would do the morning. We’d get up and have to be at training by 07:45.
Glennon Doyle:
No.
Ashlyn Harris:
In Orlando, Florida. Hundred and something degree. I would just some days show up and cry.
Ali Krieger:
She would just be crying. I’m like, “Just turn around and go home.”
Ashlyn Harris:
I don’t know what was going on. I didn’t even know what planet I was on. I would just cry and then I would be like, all right, I’m good to go. I’ll go home and I’m going to be the best mom ever.
Glennon Doyle:
Okay.
Ashlyn Harris:
It’s wild. I know.
Glennon Doyle:
So physically that’s unbelievable but emotionally also. Because when you have a new baby, you just start hating each other. I feel like if there’s anyone, it’s you guys. So I just want to know, did you hate each other during that time? Because even if you’re emotionally intelligent and you love each other and you’re good friends, when you’re not sleeping, we revert to this animalistic version of ourselves.
Ali Krieger:
Oh my gosh.
Glennon Doyle:
Did you fight? Do you baby fight? What are your baby fights?
Abby Wambach:
I mean, I’ll just add this too, is they both have the exact same job. So it’s not like one person is going off to work and another person staying home. But you guys both are sharing the exact experience on the soccer field. So there was no reprieve. There was no like get out-
Glennon Doyle:
So did you fight a lot?
Ali Krieger:
Well, you were like… No. I was like, “Yeah, we fought. That’s great.
Glennon Doyle:
Get your story straight real quick.
Ali Krieger:
Yeah. No, we didn’t fight at all. I’m just laughing because the very first night Ash was probably like, great. I need a buckle away because this woman is wild.
Ashlyn Harris:
Can I tell you the first night? Because this is going to tell you a lot about our relationship. And I think Abby you’re going to really appreciate this story. And Glennon, so will you because you’re going to get it. First off, they just can hand you the baby and they’re like, “Here you go. Put it in the car seat. Well, that looks great. See you”.
Ashlyn Harris:
We took all these courses through adoption. I have no idea what I’m doing with this child. It’s just like a stranger has been put into my arms. We get home. We drive. Our child was born in Tampa. So we drove home. I’m driving so slow. I’m like, I just can’t… Didn’t change lanes how careful I was driving. So we get home and we’re doing our thing. We’re good. Every two hours, this baby needs to eat, sleeps the whole time.
Ashlyn Harris:
So nighttime comes around and we’re… You know how competitive we are. So Ali and I are like, the first week we’re doing this. No night nannies. This is our time to latch. We’re going to own this. We’re like, this is our moment. The first night Ali is literally white knuckling the bassinet. The child moves. Sloane tried to get out of this swaddle thing we have her in.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s a straitjacket.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah. And you can’t have at the time any blankets, anything in there. So all you hear is the wish wish wish.
Ali Krieger:
It’s like a tracksuit. Like an old ’80s tracksuit.
Ashlyn Harris:
So every time Sloane’s moving, Ali’s like, “Oh my God.” And she gets up out bed and she’s looking into the bassinet and I’m like, “Okay, she’s fine, honey.” And then she has this light button. She keeps pushing this light frantically. She looks over to me and she’s like, “It’s too cold in here.” Okay. I go and I turn the air up and then Sloane’s still doing the jig in the crib. She gets back up and she’s like, “The vents.” It’s three or four o’clock in the morning at this point. “The vents. It’s too cold. Go close the vents.” “Girl, we have 12 foot ceiling. What am I supposed to do?” “Go in the garage and get the ladder.”
Ashlyn Harris:
Now it’s four o’clock in the morning. I’m trucking outside. I have the ladder. I’m trying not to make any noise. I’m going up the glass staircase with this-
Ali Krieger:
Our garage is detached in the back of the house through the walkway and then-
Ashlyn Harris:
It’s 04:00 AM now, right? I closed the vents. I’m literally haven’t slept. My mind’s mushed. I’m 12 feet in the air closing every vent in the house. We’re baking, literally baking.
Ali Krieger:
I’m sorry.
Ashlyn Harris:
So then Sloane’s still moving. My patience at this point, I’m so patient with Ali, I love her to death, but at this point I’m like, “Honey, enough. At this rate we will never sleep again.” And she’s like, “I have to keep her alive.”
Glennon Doyle:
That’s the thing.
Ashlyn Harris:
That dramatic. That dramatic. That’s her exact words. The next morning I called that night nurse and she was there by 03:00 PM the next day.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Ashlyn Harris:
I’m like, we can’t do this.
Ali Krieger:
We couldn’t do it.
Ashlyn Harris:
That was the first and only night.
Glennon Doyle:
You have to save your marriage.
Ali Krieger:
That’s probably our only fight.
Ashlyn Harris:
Then we learned that she liked to be swaddled up.
Ali Krieger:
So that’s why she was moving. This one was like no. She wanted up. Yeah.
Ashlyn Harris:
That was our one and only fight and it wasn’t even a fight. My patience. We were running thin.
Ali Krieger:
And then we would just breathe through the other frustrations. I’d be like, “Okay, why don’t you just go take a nap or why don’t you go-
Ashlyn Harris:
She’s was so good with me because I was on fumes.
Ali Krieger:
She was crying and upset. Not crying all the time, but you were just so tired and she doesn’t sleep as it is. She just struggles to sleep. That’s just how you are, tossing and turning. That’s always been a thing. So then I was like, Oh gosh, bringing a baby into this. She’s going to be… So I would have to take extra shifts just because I’m like, you got to train. You got to be good and you got to show up and do your job and do it well. So we need to figure something else out.
Glennon Doyle:
Oh my God. Everyone should have babies with people on their teams. You knew how to be teammates already. This is something that married people don’t know or understand, is how to be on the same team and take care of each other.
Abby Wambach:
And as it comes to fighting, how do you fight in general? What are your fighting styles?
Glennon Doyle:
Or communicate? Because it doesn’t sound like you fight. When your feelings are hurt with each other or you have to have a conflict, is one of you more afraid of conflict than the other?
Ashlyn Harris:
I think we’re just so honest with each other and I don’t know if sports has helped diffuse, honest. She can be very honest with me and I’m like, damn, that was harsh. But I’m so used to it because that’s my job. I want to surround myself by people who are going to tell me the truth and not what I want to hear so I can get better. We are so good at saying that to each other in a nice way. We’re just like, “This is bothering me. This is how it’s making me feel.” And boom, I understand. I’m going to have to be better and figure it out and we compromise. I feel like that’s marriage in general.
Ali Krieger:
But I think communicating is so huge for us because if something’s bothering me, I’ll tell her right away and not let it build up and build up until the fifth time and it just explodes. I think that’s been really helpful for our relationship just to kind of like… I’m pretty calm. Sometimes I’ll snap here and there when I’m a little annoyed at something that I didn’t address sooner and that’s on me and I’m like, “Listen, I’m really sorry, but-
Glennon Doyle:
That’s the biggest thing is talking about all the little things because sometimes we’re like, are we ridiculous because all we do is talk about every little thing?
Abby Wambach:
This lesbian relationship talks about every.
Glennon Doyle:
But it actually is so helpful because when you ignore the little things and they build up and build up and build up and then you freak out.
Ashlyn Harris:
Oh my gosh. And also just learning your partner is so important because then you can help cater to their needs a bit more. I know for Ali she’s such a yes person that she gives, gives, gives, gives, gives and she gets to a point where she’s so fragile and tired. That’s when the cracks start to come out and I have to step in and be like, “Honey, you can’t do it all. You can’t be here and there and flying all over the place and then be a mom and then mom guilt creeps in.” She suffers a lot from mom guilt.
Ashlyn Harris:
So it’s a lot of times just me taking care of her in a way where, don’t feel bad about saying no to people. We also have to own our own time and I think that’s the hardest thing she struggles with. So I try to come in sometimes and be like, “Maybe we don’t have to do that. It’s okay to say no.” I try to balance it a little bit more. I don’t know. I guess really just getting to know each other and knowing in this moment she might need me because I can say no and feel no regret or no kind of way. And she’s like really sweet and nice and she’s always wanting to do good things for people, but then it leaves her tired-
Glennon Doyle:
Empty.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah, and empty a lot of times.
Ali Krieger:
But we’re talking about it in therapy. I’m talking it out with my therapist a lot. So we’re trying to figure that out day to day. It’s getting better.
Glennon Doyle:
That’s why they’re so healthy too.
Abby Wambach:
That’s why you’re so healthy, yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
I’m like, for sure there’s therapy going on here. So, are you both in individual therapy and do you ever do marriage therapy?
Ali Krieger:
No, we haven’t done marriage therapy, which I would be open to it. It’d be really fun to continue to build our relationship stronger and stronger. But individual for me, yes, because I am dealing with a lot of trauma from childhood and grieving and mom guilt. So those are my topics.
Glennon Doyle:
What’s your mom guilt about?
Ali Krieger:
I want to be good at everything. So I want to be the best soccer player I can be. I want to be the best activist I can be. I want to be the best mom I can be and I know that each of those kind of take. And the best sister and the best daughter and the best wife. Sorry, I didn’t mean to put that last. All the things you want to be so good at and give equal amount of time to everything, but when I don’t feel like I’m doing that, it becomes really difficult.
Ali Krieger:
And I struggle with, I guess, just accepting that something’s got to give and you’re going to sacrifice a little bit of time here and there. But ultimately I have been feeling better about going to training and then giving myself some time before I come home because I don’t want to come home and not have a smile on my face and not be happy. So I know I have to make myself a priority too or else Sloane’s going to always just see me upset and unhappy in the house and that is like the absolute last thing I want.
Ali Krieger:
So I have to make sure at times that I split the time and understand that giving her everything means also giving myself more time and more grace to-
Abby Wambach:
That’s so beautiful. And one thing I’ll just say to that is that was a complex that I had big time when I retired and I was like, okay, I’m going to be the best at everything that I do and for me that left me feeling really sad because what we were able to do as a soccer player in terms of just the evaluation process, it’s also relative. But being on the best team in the world, that’s something that I’m really proud of and that’s something that I identified as so much as a national team player.
Abby Wambach:
But in all the other components of my life I think it doesn’t serve me because there is no way to be the “Best parent in the world,” but here I was trying my hardest to be the best parent in the world.
Glennon Doyle:
As if there was going to be a medal ceremony.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah, I was waiting for it. Nobody was giving me any trophies. This is a very weird situation to be in
Glennon Doyle:
Nobody said they’d give you shit.
Abby Wambach:
This is a very weird situation to be involved in. But what I’ve learned over time, Ali, and I don’t know if this will help you in any way, but what I’ve learned over time that with parenting especially, it’s not about how good or bad you are, it’s about how you show up. And as a parent I’ve let myself just by showing up be a success. That has been, I think, really a hard transition from what we do as soccer players to ‘normal life” as I would say. You just have to give yourself a little bit of grace that there is no trophy. There’s no parenting trophy.
Ali Krieger:
That’s such a good point.
Glennon Doyle:
There’s no trophy.
Ali Krieger:
That’s such a good point and I feel like I… You’re right. I think that are we doing the best? Are we being the best of the best at the best?
Ashlyn Harris:
And at the end of the day though, Sloane’s going to see how hard her mom’s work and how much of this life that they’ve created and how they stand for things that most people are scared to stand for, lend their voice to people who don’t have a voice. We work around the clock and I want her to see how we’re trying to change the narrative, how we’re trying to make the world better for her. I want her to be proud of that like, I saw my parents work two jobs. I took something from them that I want it to be better for my kids and that’s what I hope she can see one day that yeah, mom works a lot but she’s working for all the right reasons.
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, and that is mothering. There’s this idea of don’t prepare the world for the child, prepare the child for the world. And that’s actually kind of horse shit. Mothering is at home with your kid or you’re helping create the person they’ll be, but it’s also out in the world helping create the world that they will inherit.
Ali Krieger:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
Right? So much of your mothering is done when you’re not even in the room with Sloane.
Ali Krieger:
Right.
Glennon Doyle:
What do you all talk about in terms of being a same gender family and a mixed race family? How are you approaching your particular type of family and how do you raise Sloane to be who she is in the world even if it’s not completely reflected in you two physically?
Ali Krieger:
Yeah, it’s a great question. We have to first start with ourselves and educating ourselves more every single day just to be able to give her the tools to succeed. And we never want to tell her what to do or how to do things, we just want to teach her certain tools to help her navigate her own life. And so I think that definitely starts with us in educating ourselves continuously to be able to help guide her through these tough conversations that I’m sure we’re going to be involved in.
Ali Krieger:
And we’ve taken a diversity course as well through the adoption process, which is a must and I think we should do that every single year. And I think it definitely starts with me and you. Yeah, she’s going to know at an early age. We talk about this often that we’re different. We are a normal family but we have our differences. And so we’re going to have to sit down with her and be open with her right from the get go. Because I think with us, we value communication. With our family we value communication. And so I think with her, that’s going to be really important as soon as she can understand.
Ashlyn Harris:
Yeah. And I think it’s so interesting, right? We grew up in a time of, what do you want to be when you grow up? And it’s always like the police officer and the firefighter and the professional baseball player, whatever the case is. We’re parenting and wanting to come from a place of… I want Sloane to use the terms like kind. I want to be kind. I want to be compassionate. I want to be understanding. And I don’t think we’re trying to raise good humans just like good machines that are going to help us follow the dreams that we fell short in. Parents do that. They just push their hopes and dreams on their children and I don’t want that for Sloane. I want her to be a kind human who knows how to navigate life because it’s hard. And I didn’t have those tools to hold onto when I was young and I want to be the parent who, not snow plows everything, but hands her the tools to navigate this journey and then she can own her own decisions.
Ashlyn Harris:
But as long as she functions through the world and this sense of clarity and being open-minded and coming from this family that looks beautifully different. I’m hopeful I’m going to raise a really good human that’s going to do great things.
Glennon Doyle:
And she’s going to be centered in who she is, not what she is. It’s this unbelievable thing we talk about all the time. It’s like such proof that we are so capitalistic in our brain. The only thing we look at these unbelievably divine human things and we’re like, what occupation are you going to have in 35 years? They don’t freaking know. They just know that adults have no idea how to talk to kids and that’s the one question adults can think of. So they ask them what they’re going to be and then they don’t even… I was a teacher, so I know. Most of the time they’re just making something up. They’re just like, these adults want to hear a word, so firefighter.
Glennon Doyle:
We used to talk all the time with our little ones. Who do you want to be when you grow up and more importantly than that? Who are you now? Not even this arrival thing because that teaches them that one day they’re going to grow up and become adults. Are you still waiting? Because I’m still waiting. When am I going to wake up and be this other thing that I’m supposed to? Because I keep just waking up and I’m just me and it’s terrifying.
Ali Krieger:
Every day.
Glennon Doyle:
Right?
Ali Krieger:
Yeah.
Glennon Doyle:
When you all are going to retire from soccer it’s like you have this identity crisis because everything’s based in the what and the what is the least… The soccer is the least exciting thing about you two.
Ali Krieger:
Right.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Glennon Doyle:
It’s who you are and that is so beautiful, you guys. I love that so much. You three are all so lucky.
Abby Wambach:
I just want to talk a little bit about traveling soccer family and what you are thinking about heading into a retirement from the good old game.
Glennon Doyle:
Are you talking about that? Has anyone retired? What’s going on with the soccer?
Ashlyn Harris:
Yes, we talk about it.
Ali Krieger:
Yes, we talk about it often.
Ashlyn Harris:
Gosh, we are just like barely crawling out there at this point.
Abby Wambach:
It’s so hard.
Ali Krieger:
I’m like maybe I overshot my thoughts of really keeping up.
Glennon Doyle:
I know.
Ali Krieger:
No, but we’re actually so much happier where we’re at now with Gotham FC and just having this experience for a couple years in New Jersey and New York and being so close to the city. It’s actually really refreshing for us to get out of our small, comfortable life in Orlando and it’s just get out and explore and kind of just be challenged again because that’s when you grow the most when you’re put in these uncomfortable situations.
Ali Krieger:
And so I feel like we’re really excited about this opportunity. But yes, our bodies are like, wow, you need to take a moment.
Ashlyn Harris:
She’s at the front door.
Ali Krieger:
I think we’re more players than trainers. We don’t train as much as we used to but we’re gamers and can show up and it’d be good.
Ashlyn Harris:
I mean, we literally play this game because we love to compete. I love to compete. I am a different animal human. I don’t know what it is, but it’s therapy for me, it really is. I mean Abby, you know. I’m out there I’m like doing all that yelling. It’s just so therapeutic to be able to go and just compete because the way I operate in life is a lot of times too much for the people around me. So it really is therapeutic and I can get it out and then I can come home and be nice and calm and mom and gentle and soft and then I can be really aggressive and harsh in my professional career. So maybe I should be in WWE or something. I don’t know.
Ali Krieger:
I don’t know what’s going to be next.
Ashlyn Harris:
Is that what it’s still called?
Abby Wambach:
Actually, I could see that for sure, A. And then B, what you just did was actually cleared something up for me that I’ve been considering. Why did I play so long? Because for a long time it wasn’t about the soccer because I couldn’t stand it at the end, it was about the competitiveness and the need to win, the need to be in this like no holds barred environment. So that’s really helpful.
Abby Wambach:
And I also just want to say this, whenever you do decide to hang up the cleats, there’s a transition period that’s super different. I’m not going to say hard because I don’t want to put any experience onto what yours might be, but there’s a transition period that you will go through that I will be here for and I want that to be known by both of you. Nobody told me that when I retired. I didn’t have somebody to be like, “Am I going wildly nuts here or is this normal?”
Abby Wambach:
And we will be here for you and I just think that what you’re doing with your own lives and the decision you made to bring Sloane and make a family for yourself is one of the most brave and beautiful things that I admire the most of you both, to do it while you’re still playing and to create this ridiculous, gorgeous family. You guys are so good looking, it’s ridiculous.
Glennon Doyle:
Yeah, it’s annoying.
Abby Wambach:
It’s so annoying.
Glennon Doyle:
But remember that time that they thought that we were them? Just to circle back.
Abby Wambach:
Yeah.
Ashlyn Harris:
You guys are so perfectly beautiful too.
Ali Krieger:
I know. What are you talking about? This is so nice to hear from you both.
Ashlyn Harris:
We can do hard things, remember Abby?
Glennon Doyle:
Yes, we can.
Ashlyn Harris:
If I’ve learned anything from Glennon from afar is we can do hard things.
Abby Wambach:
We can.
Ashlyn Harris:
Together.
Glennon Doyle:
Together.
Ali Krieger:
We admire you both. We love you both and we just appreciate everything you do for the community, for us as individuals and a family. We just look up to both of you and just appreciate everything you do. So I want to make sure we say that and we value you so much. So thank you.
Abby Wambach:
We love you. Please come back.
Glennon Doyle:
Bring the baby to us.
Abby Wambach:
Bring the baby, yes.
Ashlyn Harris:
Listen, we are coming. We’re going to do around the couch. It’s going to be called around the couch and we’re going to be folding Abby’s long underwear like we did.
Glennon Doyle:
I probably won’t.
Ali Krieger:
I don’t know. I’ll probably be doing, I don’t know, hanging out.
Glennon Doyle:
And if during this transition time that you’re talking about, if you need to spend a lot of time reaching into your psyche or whatever, I can babysit during this time.
Abby Wambach:
Yes.
Ashlyn Harris:
We will hold you to that.
Glennon Doyle:
Thank you.
Abby Wambach:
Yes, she would love-
Ashlyn Harris:
We can’t wait to come visit.
Glennon Doyle:
All right. We love you both so much. Thank you for this hour. We loved every minute. Thank you for who you are in the world. We will be in your corner forever.
Abby Wambach:
That’s right.
Ali Krieger:
Thank you.
Glennon Doyle:
And to the rest of you. Well, it’ll never get better than that. So I hope you enjoyed this last hour and we will see you back here next time when we can do hard things. Bye.